What is Lag? Lagging? Laggering? SWBF Related

[quik]

Ah. Lagging? Nope. But that's what you thought the title said huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag

This is what wikipedia defines as lag. And yes, it's correct.

Lagging - Is the effect of Lag. In gaming, lag is when your computer 'freezes' or 'gets choppy.' This can be a huge nuisance. You'll be running along to shoot a guy and boom! You've been teleported 50 feet from where you were. What happened? Well, you're lagging. In extremely easy to understand terms, your connection with your server has been...chopped. Packets that are coming and going between your computer and the server is being delayed/chopped.

Lag can also happen in singleplayer. But it's caused by either your computers potent ability to handle applications, or it's graphics card. Having a good gaming computer (or at least being able to run a game's requirements (NOT MINIMAL)) should cause you to be lagless in singleplayer.

Lag can be caused by a lot of different things, in which I won't get into much detail.

Now in SWBF, the good ol' Euro players have given the grace to give the term of 'laggering.' Note the difference? Lag+ging-ing+er=Laggering. Now what is this thing you speak of Quik? Well, ever shoot a guy and shots don't register? Like on your screen it says you hit him, and on his screen, it hit him, but he lost no health ? Well this is laggering.

Laggering is caused by two things.

Frame Rate: Yes, the higher the framerate, the lower your ping. The better the graphics card, the higher the framerate. But your ping doesn't fall by that much when you do have a high framerate. Maybe 2-7 at the most. If you run 20 FPS, the person only has to sidestep, and it becomes extremely hard to hit him by aiming at him. You have to aim away from him to hit him. And yes, it sucks. Same thing in 30fps.

Ping: Your connection to the server. It's affected by framerate, graphics (same as frameright pretty much), and internet connection. The closer you are to the servers area, the faster your internet, the better your ping. The better the graphics card, the lower the ping also. And this can be proven by taking a bad graphics card, and hosting/joining a server with it. You will lag AND your ping will be high. If, however you take a good graphics card and join a server with it, your ping will be lower and you shouldn't lag. Also, the speed of the game affects your gameplay. I tested this out with Cheat Engine on a server, with John. His ping while he hosted = 15. Mine =100 (it's normally 200 because I'm in the states and he's in Italy.)

Now, put those two things together and you got laggering.  The  of Battlefront. You can't hit your opponent, and he/she can't hit you. Great.

The only way to fix laggering is get better graphic's card, better internet connection, better computer...etc. 33ping=200ping

It just depends on how you play, and how well you manage your ping.

Debates? Feel free to fire any questions away, I'll be glad to answer them.

[Xfire Keenmike aka cull]

This is very good information like alot of stickies on these forums. I thank you and ask if cheat engine might help our game play in any way if used it at the speed of the game? And if I understand correctly would using the engine at anyonther engine speed be considered cheating or just an effort to find good game play? Would like thought on this.

[Led]

Quik,

You mention that the ping fall by 2-7 ms when using an upcapped framerate.

I must call you out on this. 

2-7 ms is well within standard variance of SWBF ping values, just sitting still and even if you are hosting it on your own computer.

Ping mismatch can certainly cause issues.  There is no way to avoid this.
Players with higher ping not being able to maintain synchronization with the server can certainly cause issues.  There is no way to avoid this (in this game--in SWBF2 you can autoboot high pingers).

That is why some players cheat with "lag" switches, and I suspect, to some extent, with cheat engine.

Using an uncapped frame rate * can not make your shots more accurate though.  Your computer has no idea where my player is at until the information from the server makes it to your computer.  Is your shot a hit, miss, or tie?  Somewhere deep in the netcode of the game, I'm sure a decision must be made, and it does the best it can.



Enjoy the game for what it is--pre-2004 technology.


* I agree that life would be easier if everyone's game came with an uncapped frame rate.  But for 1.2, it is not the standard configuration.

[Xfire Keenmike aka cull]

Cool also Buckler I just want to see if I can change the game without modding files and others will benifit. I tested this night and some of it was good but not all. For example if anyone one wants to experience 1.5 or 2.0 or even 5.0 with a friend let me know. Ifs funny. I have said to much.

[quik]

This is very good information like alot of stickies on these forums. I thank you and ask if cheat engine might help our game play in any way if used it at the speed of the game? And if I understand correctly would using the engine at anyonther engine speed be considered cheating or just an effort to find good game play? Would like thought on this.

Cheat Engine...is...cheating, as the title suggests. But, when you a server host uses cheat engine on his server, and the players do to, the gameplay speed is halved. The ping is also halved because of this.  This gives evidence to support that the slower the game moves, the lower the ping will be. However, if you join a server and try to modify your speed...you'll just lag. Since speed is server sided.

Using an uncapped frame rate * can not make your shots more accurate though.  Your computer has no idea where my player is at until the information from the server makes it to your computer.  Is your shot a hit, miss, or tie?  Somewhere deep in the netcode of the game, I'm sure a decision must be made, and it does the best it can.



Enjoy the game for what it is--pre-2004 technology.


* I agree that life would be easier if everyone's game came with an uncapped frame rate.  But for 1.2, it is not the standard configuration.

Ah, but have you tried stepping with lower framerates? When your opponent sidesteps, it's as if he's teleporting around with his --pre-2004 technology xD

Increase framerate does guarantee a better shot at hitting the person, although it doesn't guarantee it. But it indeed DOES help.

[Led]

Your uncapped frame rate is both helping and hurting you.
Your screen updates faster than the server.  If your opponent is moving around, and moves in the direction you are anticipating, then it works to your favor.

If he moves differently, your computer must make a more dramatic adjustment.  Then it seems to you that he is teleporting.

Lets put some numbers to this.  Suppose that the tick rate is 30 TPS.  That is one synchronization tick per 33.3 ms.  How many people ping that low?  You will on single player, or on your own server, but normal players are at least 50 ms if you live next to a good data center to 350 ms if you are from Australia.  Thats a whole lot of missed ticks on the high end.


If you set TPS to say 10, then thats 100 ms per tick.  A lot can happen in 100 ms. Who wins the shootout?  You miss fewer ticks,  but in the end I guess what happens still depends on the internal decision making again.

Ideally, we will all ping at 25, and set the ticks to 30.

For me, I can't play 20 TPS servers.  I hurts my eyes.  Knowing that others may be in that situation, I try to set my servers at 30 TPS.  I have tried noframelock, but as you know, its nice, but often flakey

And as I mentioned in an old post, I would also prefer to have less of a server load by everyone using noframelock and having the server set at a low, but reasonable tick setting.  (Unlike others, I have put nofraemlock out in the public, instead of keeping it to myself

[quik]

Noframelock isn't meant to be an advantage, whereas a bonus experience to enhance gameplay. But it does affect laggering =p

[Led]

Cheat Engine...is...cheating, as the title suggests. But, when you a server host uses cheat engine on his server, and the players do to, the gameplay speed is halved. The ping is also halved because of this.  This gives evidence to support that the slower the game moves, the lower the ping will be. However, if you join a server and try to modify your speed...you'll just lag. Since speed is server sided.

Quik, the reason that you think the ping is affected with cheat engine, is that cheat engine messes with the internal program timing or synchronization with the CPU.  In actuality, you have done nothing to affect your actual ping, only the calculation of ping within SWBF,  since SWBF must belive what it thinks is the CPU tick values.

Now, I'm sure that SWBF was made to the best standards of the day so by using cheat engine some strange things are sure to happen if you get too far from the nominal values.

[Xfire Keenmike aka cull]

Cheating is not cheating if you the person never had or have tentions to cheat in the first. I hope to provide a simple server for few visiting friends with the information I learn here and from friends.

[quik]

But Led, the weird thing is that when my ping is reduced, my shots are more accurate and register more...care to explain why?

[Led]

Hey Quik,

So we need to be more clear about what you mean when you say reduced ping--"real" ping,
or same server with cheat engine speed hack ?

---real ping being reduced I think that's obvious why shots register better

--cheat engine speed hack, then perhaps opponents reflex time enters into it.  It would be hard to say for sure if that were really the case, and I also think it would be hard to quantify "better shots on target" .  i.e. it may be an impression, but hard to gather evidence.

[quik]

Well I meant for both of them.

The ping reduced by cheat engine is only reduced because the speed is cut by 2. This halves my ping. Now if I were to speed up the game by...say...3, my ping would triple.