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General => General => Topic started by: Kit Fisto on June 10, 2012, 08:57:05 PM

Poll
Question: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Option 1: Episode I The Phantom Menace votes: 4
Option 2: Episode II Attack of the Clones votes: 8
Option 3: Episode III Revenge of the Sith votes: 13
Title: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 10, 2012, 08:57:05 PM
I was gonna do all 6 films but then it would have taken you days to answer!  ;) I'll do IV-VI later.
Why do you like what you chose? Is it the battle scenes? Story arc? Characters?
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Phobos on June 11, 2012, 01:40:23 AM
Episode 1 because it has the most diverse aliens very cool.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Darth Verik on June 11, 2012, 04:30:26 AM
Omgggggg....i bet you cant even tell who's the leading
Character in episode 1...

Anyways ill go for episode 3...because of the awesome quotes and starting battles between clones and jedis
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 05:32:58 AM
They all suck. I refuse to vote for any of them.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 06:27:32 AM
Am I the only one who likes episode II? :o I'll tell you why thats the best one! It is a small conflict that builds up to a giant battle at the end. This is the first time you see more than 3 lightsaber wielders fighting at the same time, connections to the originals: they introduce the clone army which forshadows the stormtroopers, you get to see Jango Fett, Boba Fett's father and you get to see Boba Fett as a kid, you see Owen and Beru young, you see why Obi-Wan hates flying ;), and you see Anakin embrace his anger for the first time, And the movie has better more focused action scenes in my opinion than 1 or 3. The best reason of all: it shows Kit Fisto and he fights like a beast! Kills C3-P0 ( well not really ) and smiles while doing it! :cheer: That is why Attack of the Clones is better than the others. Episode 1 is annoying because of Anakin as a kid and 3 is too dark. I still like them but I prefer to watch 2 over the others. ;)
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 07:18:13 AM
WARNING:

Don't take my distaste of the prequels personally, I once wrote an essay on the subject for an English Literature assignment.

Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 06:27:32 AM
I'll tell you why thats the best one! It is a small conflict that builds up to a giant battle at the end.
This is the first time you see more than 3 lightsaber wielders fighting at the same time,
More doesn't always equal better.

Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 06:27:32 AM
connections to the originals: they introduce the clone army which forshadows the stormtroopers,
you get to see Jango Fett, Boba Fett's father and you get to see Boba Fett as a kid,
And the movie has better more focused action scenes in my opinion than 1 or 3.
The best reason of all: it shows Kit Fisto and he fights like a beast! Kills C3-P0 ( well not really ) and smiles while doing it! :cheer: That is why Attack of the Clones is better than the others.
The large action scenes is quite rubbish in all 3 because the viewer is completely disconnected to the Clones and Droids.
Both armies are faceless and their "deaths" don't matter; when one dies they are just replaced by another.

At least you care about the Rebels in the originals, because their "real" people fighting against oppression, and the Imperials are desperately trying to hold onto power.
The Clones and Droids only fight because they're programmed to, they have no personal politics, no dreams or aspirations.

And the fact that Kitfisto is a far better character than many of the primary characters in the film is a testament to how bad the main characters are.

And we still don't know who the protagonist is (It keeps blurring between Obi Wan and Anakin).

Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 06:27:32 AM
3 is too dark. I still like them but I prefer to watch 2 over the others. ;)
Yes I agree. It is flawed in that the "darker bits" come as a surprise to the viewer... there should have been a better flow of atmosphere.
Especially when you have the cartoon humour of R2D2 (etc) in one scene, and in the next scene Anakin is beheading a defenceless old man.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: {TcF}Dr.Penguin on June 11, 2012, 07:53:07 AM
1 is too um....boring....2 has good parts...3 is too dark, but has good ending scenes and you get to see clones in action. Unit does have some very strong points though.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: BlackScorpion on June 11, 2012, 08:05:31 AM
Toss up between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, which I handed to Attack of the Clones.

Quote from: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 07:18:13 AM

And we still don't know who the protagonist is (It keeps blurring between Obi Wan and Anakin).


You say this like it's, in and of itself, a bad thing.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: MARCUS on June 11, 2012, 08:07:17 AM
i totally agree with kitfisto15678

i ADORE the second movie because of three things;

1) there is a HUGE battle between droids and clones
2)you get to see jedis slaughtering the droids
3) my favorite part of the whole star wars movie; the fight between yoda and count dooku, thats just AWESOME

here a vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60GR3vNKHt8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60GR3vNKHt8)

Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 08:48:48 AM
@ unit 33: I understand what you mean by faceless, and deaths don't matter but they changed that with the clone wars TV show still showing. If you haven't watched it it brings more personality to the clones and you are actually sad when certain ones die. I was just joking around about the kit fisto part and I think the originals are far better than the prequels, that is not debatable.  :tu:
@ BlackScorpion: I don't think it is a bad thing I just think that George Lucas wanted both characters to be protagonists on an equal scale. My opinion.
@ Marcus: I need to hang out with you more! I completely agree with every word you said. :)
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: MARCUS on June 11, 2012, 09:12:42 AM
Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 08:48:48 AM
@ Marcus: I need to hang out with you more! I completely agree with every word you said. :)

i also have a mod idea;

why don't we make a darth yoda mod^^
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: {PLA}gdh92 on June 11, 2012, 09:21:08 AM
I actually liked the prequels although there are quite a few hilariously bad bits. I would have to chose Revenge of the Sith overall because of the fight/battle scenes, the variety of planets and species and they way it tied tha saga together. Saying that I liked the parts in 1 and 2 where we got to see more of the day to day life in the Star Wars universe especially in number 1 where the sets actually existed as opposed to being a box and a green screen. Hopefully we can see more of that in the (underworld?) tv series if it gets made.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 09:29:44 AM
Quote from: MARCUS on June 11, 2012, 09:12:42 AM
i also have a mod idea;

why don't we make a darth yoda mod^^
I would love to do a project with you but I have a mac.  :shrug: If I can help in any way by finding assets? Then let's get started!
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Lyza on June 11, 2012, 09:33:07 AM
I like the first one because Darth Maul is probally my favorite bad guy, and there is also Jar Jar :D
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Darth Gamer on June 11, 2012, 09:37:46 AM
I choose episode 1, because I love Maul's fighting style, and, in general, Maul is one of my favourite sith.
Βut, I also agree with Unit's opinion.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: {TcF}Dr.Penguin on June 11, 2012, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 08:48:48 AM
@ unit 33: I understand what you mean by faceless, and deaths don't matter but they changed that with the clone wars TV show still showing. If you haven't watched it it brings more personality to the clones and you are actually sad when certain ones die. I was just joking around about the kit fisto part and I think the originals are far better than the prequels, that is not debatable.  :tu:

I stopped watching the TV show because there were so many faceless deaths.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 10:04:47 AM
Quote from: {TcF}Dr.Penguin on June 11, 2012, 09:46:04 AM
I stopped watching the TV show because there were so many faceless deaths.
They have to have faceless deaths, it's war! But they give more personality to select clones who play big parts in certain episodes.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 10:04:47 AM
They have to have faceless deaths, it's war!
What?
There are no "faceless" deaths in reality. All soldiers (usually) have families, friends and lives.
By taking away "meaningful" death from war it makes the war itself look idiotic and pointless (which it usually is I suppose).

In response to the duel being amazing....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 10:18:21 AM
I was talking about the Clone Wars tv show, NOT real life war.
The youtube video is pretty funny!
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Darth Gamer on June 11, 2012, 01:03:53 PM
I didn't know that the battle between Maul, Obi-Wan and his master was so fake...

About war:
Our teacher said:
''When battles were fought with melee weapons, it was very hard to kill someone. The blood was pouring from the enemy's wounds and the enemy was asking for mercy...You had to kill that person.You had to hear his bones breaking as he was screaming, because he was in pain, and finally die because of you. Now war is like a video game. Shoot and you are done. No screams, no mercy, not too much blood...''.

Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 02:11:58 PM
Quote from: Darth Gamer on June 11, 2012, 01:03:53 PM
You had to kill that person.You had to hear his bones breaking as he was screaming, because he was in pain, and finally die because of you. Now war is like a video game. Shoot and you are done. No screams, no mercy, not too much blood...''.

Quoted for truth.

War shouldn't be presented as so clean, as it is in the prequels.
Although the Originals aren't exactly a blood bath, they don't delude themselves into glamourising war.

(And the original scripts for Episode 6 was much darker...
It was called Revenge of the Jedi (with a much better poster)
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Frmansfield%2Fthislamp%2Ffiles%2Fpage0_blog_entry115_1.jpg&hash=5d80f68a1c5f411b41db0c9c6091222d3a8d4ad5)
In which Han Solo died in the Death Star explosion and Luke became a sort of Lone Ranger character.
The opening crawl even began with "The Rebellion is doomed.")


Anyway enough of this silliness.

I guess as dumb action films they work.
And it's not The prequel's fault. It's just a general mood change that cinema took in the 2000s.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: tirpider on June 11, 2012, 02:54:01 PM
Quote from: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 02:11:58 PM
It's just a general mood change that cinema took in the 2000s.

You hit it, right there.

It's like the writers strike never ended, and everything is written by accountants and producers now.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 02:56:25 PM
Movies that present war as it is are rated R and turn away a huge audience. As with Star Wars, they make it so their younger fan base can watch the movies and not have to have their parents skip every bloody part! You don't see any Gladiator or Last of the Mohicans children toys! :P
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 02:56:25 PM
Movies that present war as it is are rated R and turn away a huge audience. As with Star Wars, they make it so their younger fan base can watch the movies and not have to have their parents skip every bloody part! You don't see any Gladiator or Last of the Mohicans children toys! :P
You don't need gore to show the horror of war. (Hey that rhymes!)

For instance, the children's film "Antz" did a brilliant job of presenting war, and stayed family friendly.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 11, 2012, 03:10:54 PM
So...
I don't think I can win this argument unless I get my dad aka second einstein in on this so you win Unit! I thought people were going to have a lively debate on the movies! Lol! :shrug:
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: BlackScorpion on June 11, 2012, 09:32:53 PM
Unit, I'd be interested in hearing the logic behind your essay or whatever else you are willing to share. :D

Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 03:10:54 PM
So...
I don't think I can win this argument unless I get my dad aka second einstein in on this so you win Unit! I thought people were going to have a lively debate on the movies! Lol! :shrug:

This is a lively debate. :D
But... I think I got some cogent points.  But mostly I'm making this up as I go along and I'm pretty tired. 

Warning: a wall of text follows.


I'd like to preface this that I recognize that this just about entirely subjective, and that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I don't really have a whole ton of horses in this race so if it seems as if the tone is, for a lack of a better word, biting then that's probably a function of (a) it being fairly late and (b) the wandering nature of this post... seriously, it's that bad.  If I were you, I'll just ignore the following.  But I've already written it, posted it, and am now ETA-ing this.  Might as well keep it.

I'll try not to dwell on the subject specifically of war, because that's not, y'know, exactly what this thread is about.  But it's crucial in discussing issues in further depth.

Quote from: Unit 33 on June 11, 2012, 10:10:36 AM
What?
There are no "faceless" deaths in reality. All soldiers (usually) have families, friends and lives.
By taking away "meaningful" death from war it makes the war itself look idiotic and pointless (which it usually is I suppose).

Very good point!  However, at the same time, I would argue that there never was " 'meaningful' " because war inherently dehumanizes combatants, as portrayed in Eric Maria Reymarque's All Quiet on The Western Front (off-topic, I know).

Similarly, the differences between wars that occur in the real world and the wars that are depicted in the Star Wars films are that in real life, soldiers are adapted to war whereas in Star Wars, both the armies of the C.I.S. battle droids and of the clones were erected for the sole purpose of waging war.  I submit that these forces are not very "likeable," but I don't think that matters within the scope of the Star Wars films (see below).  I'd like to take this opportunity to shore up a flaw in my argument regarding a potential inability for the audience can relate to the armies in Star Wars: (this is a remark meant to be applied to total wars, as well as wars for which there is active conscription--I'm an American, so we don't have a draft [just compulsory registration] but if a war were to occur in the real world on the massive scale that occurs in the Star Wars films, it seems silly to argue that the draft would not be reinstated) Governments don't care whether it's you or it's me that's shooting the rifle; all the Governments care about is that it's the opposition who is meeting the bullet.  Cynical?  Perhaps.  But... "what use is it to [any given soldier] now [upon suffering a fatal injury] that [that soldier] was such a good mathematician in school?"

Quote from: kitfisto15678 on June 11, 2012, 02:56:25 PM
Movies that present war as it is are rated R and turn away a huge audience. As with Star Wars, they make it so their younger fan base can watch the movies and not have to have their parents skip every bloody part! You don't see any Gladiator or Last of the Mohicans children toys! :P

For what it's worth, The Hurt Locker won several Academy Awards.   ;)  But we're not talking about The Hurt Locker, we're talking about reality.  Wait, why are we talking about reality?  Why is whether or not the battles are between large, faceless legions something that matters?  I propose that the plot of the Star Wars films pertains to the classic struggle between two opposing forces colloquially termed "good" and "evil": between light and dark.  A battle fought by two behemoths who will go on until they destroy the other.  But there is a caveat: neither force is capable of destroying the other--they are both too powerful.  And so the process of instilling Dynamic Equilibrium (i.e., balance) begins, a process brought on under the watchful eye of the Jedi, a group devoted to the preservation of ideals such as law, justice, and order.  Good and evil are rarely quantifiable terms; instead, they seem to be that which, to borrow from the departed Justice Potter Stewart, one will be able to categorize when they see it.

These are, of course, philosophical ideals that we are discussing, ideals that do not have faces, instead possessing constituent representatives (e.g., *suppose the term "evil" can be analyzed objectively and Emperor Palpatine is deemed to be objectively "evil"* Emperor Palpatine is "evil,"but he is not the force of evil, because that is a force that exists in the hearts of individuals, a force to which Emperor Palpatine has succumed).  What I'm trying to say, and have probably failed to do so, is that the sequel films possess extraordinary allegorical value for good vs. evil: that battle is, certainly, not limited to the battle waged between David and Goliath.

TL;DR: I'm not really sure.  All I know is that, between starting and writing this wall of text, the day changed.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: SleepKiller on June 11, 2012, 10:58:21 PM
Speaking as a person who likes the prequels better than the originals I will have to go with Episode III.  It is by far the most strongest out of the three in all aspects. There are some epic moments in it that the other movies just don't have. Order 66 being executed, Yoda facing Darth Siduis  and Obi One and Anakin duelling. The only other part in the saga that comes close to any of those parts is the Duel Of the Fates in Episode I.

Overall I am not such a fan of Star Wars any more as I once was a few years ago. Compared to the Lord Of Rings Star Wars just doesn't come close, the books are masterfully written.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Led on June 11, 2012, 11:05:00 PM
I think tirpider said it best (in some post on this forum):  the acting in the prequels was atrocious.  Both Anikans, and Padme are so bad, it borders on funny.  And its not that the acting in the originals was that great, either :)

As far as the protagonist of the movie, Lucas has often said that the story is told from the POV of the C3PO and R2D2.  I don't know how the scenes that they are not in become known to them, but that's what George said :P

I thought what is know now as Episode IV and V were pretty fun movies, and I've seen them many times.  The Episode VI, bleh.  Despite my comments about Anikan, Episodes II and III looks great on my 55 inch TV.

About the war stuff--meh, it is called Star Wars  ;)

Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: SleepKiller on June 11, 2012, 11:21:12 PM
Yes, the acting is awful with those two. Another reason why Lord Of The Rings is better...
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Snake on June 11, 2012, 11:26:10 PM
I like them all but I think III was the coolest because it really hooked everything together and gave you that "Ohhh..!" feeling.

They should make a Clone Wars version of Band Of Brothers!
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 12, 2012, 03:53:08 AM
Woops. I broke the quote system. My responses are in Blue.


Quote
Very good point!  However, at the same time, I would argue that there never was " 'meaningful' " because war inherently dehumanises combatants, as portrayed in Eric Maria Reymarque's All Quiet on The Western Front (off-topic, I know).

Similarly, the differences between wars that occur in the real world and the wars that are depicted in the Star Wars films are that in real life, soldiers are adapted to war whereas in Star Wars, both the armies of the C.I.S. battle droids and of the clones were erected for the sole purpose of waging war.  I submit that these forces are not very "likeable," but I don't think that matters within the scope of the Star Wars films (see below).

I suppose, but then how is the audience meant to know who that bad guys are? Sure in many war films this is a central theme. That there is no such thing as an "enemy," in the end they're just people (see Bridge over the River Kwai... Tora! Tora! Tora! and countless others)
But I don't think it was appropriately executed in the Prequels.


Quote
I'd like to take this opportunity to shore up a flaw in my argument regarding a potential inability for the audience can relate to the armies in Star Wars: (this is a remark meant to be applied to total wars, as well as wars for which there is active conscription--I'm an American, so we don't have a draft [just compulsory registration] but if a war were to occur in the real world on the massive scale that occurs in the Star Wars films, it seems silly to argue that the draft would not be reinstated) Governments don't care whether it's you or it's me that's shooting the rifle; all the Governments care about is that it's the opposition who is meeting the bullet.  Cynical? 

Not cynical, it's mostly true.

Quote
I propose that the plot of the Star Wars films pertains to the classic struggle between two opposing forces colloquially termed "good" and "evil": between light and dark.

Yeah, but neither side are clearly good or evil. This is a thing What makes the CIS so bad? (Yes off screen there's all sorts of cartoons and novels etc that explain this but motives should be properly explored in the film) They never do anything particularly evil.
Even the opening crawl of Episode Three states:

"There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere."

Quote
A battle fought by two behemoths who will go on until they destroy the other.  But there is a caveat: neither force is capable of destroying the other--they are both too powerful.  And so the process of instilling Dynamic Equilibrium (i.e., balance) begins, a process brought on under the watchful eye of the Jedi, a group devoted to the preservation of ideals such as law, justice, and order.  Good and evil are rarely quantifiable terms; instead, they seem to be that which, to borrow from the departed Justice Potter Stewart, one will be able to categorize when they see it.
[quote/]

Yes.
However, we find out that the war is a giant manipulation on behalf of Darth Sidious, who commands both armies
Why would a man capable of creating an army and manipulating another army into his control have these two armies fight each other instead of using both armies against foes who would have already been outmatched by one of those armies? I just don't get it.

Deception is a part of politics and war  (Sun Tzu said that), but when you consider the economic cost and damage apparently inflicted by Sidious having his two loyal armies fight eachother... argh.

Why the charade anyway? Why even hide from the Jedi?
The Jedi were hardly a threat to him because they were so dumb not to see the obvious in front of their face for 10+ years.

But anyway this is why I hate the Clone Wars saga because nothing anyone does on either side makes a lick of a difference since Palpatine is controlling both sides. He controls the Separatists directly through Dooku and through "Darth Sidious". He controls the clones directly who turn on a dime to kill the Jedi and even the Jedi he manipulates for years. There are no consequences and with that no reason to care.

Quote
TL;DR: I'm not really sure.  All I know is that, between starting and writing this wall of text, the day changed.

That's life for you.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: SleepKiller on June 12, 2012, 05:20:35 AM
@Units thoughts on the double game.

Think about it, the Jedi while although most of them are not as powerful as a Sith Lord. They are still well trained and disciplined warriors. And if he did face the entire council in combat he would lose. You also can't forget he is maintaining an appearance to the Senate in good stance. He had to wait for the Jedi to make the move on him to attack else he would surely find himself in a disposition.

These are not old Republic times, he doesn't have legions of Sith behind him to attack the temple with. If he went at it he would quickly be overwhelmed by numbers and lose. Yes he could execute order 66, but how would be explain it to the Senate? That is ultimately the game of the prequels control of the Senate a game he plays both sides at. He appeared to know the CIS stood no chance of actually winning the war, so he used that to put himself into power in the Senate. His powers he got form the war enabled him to ultimately form the Empire.

Ultimately he wins the game, and purges all bit a dozen Jedi from the galaxy. The survivors die in the end anyway,  he is the only Sith Lord that I know of who truly destroys the Jedi Order. The Order does rise again but under new symbols and teachings.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 12, 2012, 05:51:10 AM
Quote from: SleepKiller on June 12, 2012, 05:20:35 AM
@Units thoughts on the double game.

Think about it, the Jedi while although most of them are not as powerful as a Sith Lord. They are still well trained and disciplined warriors. And if he did face the entire council in combat he would lose. You also can't forget he is maintaining an appearance to the Senate in good stance. He had to wait for the Jedi to make the move on him to attack else he would surely find himself in a disposition.

These are not old Republic times, he doesn't have legions of Sith behind him to attack the temple with. If he went at it he would quickly be overwhelmed by numbers and lose. Yes he could execute order 66, but how would be explain it to the Senate? That is ultimately the game of the prequels control of the Senate a game he plays both sides at. He appeared to know the CIS stood no chance of actually winning the war, so he used that to put himself into power in the Senate. His powers he got form the war enabled him to ultimately form the Empire.

Ultimately he wins the game, and purges all bit a dozen Jedi from the galaxy. The survivors die in the end anyway,  he is the only Sith Lord that I know of who truly destroys the Jedi Order. The Order does rise again but under new symbols and teachings.
I suppose the rise of power is sort of a mirroring of the rise of Fascism in Italy and in Germany in the 1920s-30s.
.Corrupt unstable politics...
."threat" from an outside source (Socialism... the CIS?)
.Scapegoating (Socialists... Religious groups... Jedi?)
.War catylisises Support (positive/negative)
.A Single "savour" leader who can take decisions rather than have the weak government(s) squabble amongst them selves.
.Some kind of martyrdom (Reichstag fire.... Supposed attack by the Jedi)
.Senate loses power and gets kicked out

That reminds me. It bothered me most that Coruscant seemed totally unaffected by the War.
(In the films the planet looks absolutely fine despite the giant space battle and years of war).


ANYWAY
Palpatine wouldn't have to face the whole Council if he went for an old fashioned coup d'etat and just seized power by using the two colossal armies.

OR
He could used the war as an excuse for the militarisation, and then by surprise both sides strike Coruscant and eliminate the Jedi under his orders?
It seems wasteful to just turn off the Droids when he's done with them. He could claim that the Clone armies had seized the control ships.
So when Order 66 happens, the Droids and Clones simultaneously attack the Jedi.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on June 12, 2012, 06:27:04 AM
Wow! You all have made excellent points while I was asleep! Unit's very last quote though sums up the prequels pretty well though and I'm sure thats what George was writing his stuff off of. About Coruscant seemingly unaffected by war, it was attacked in the begining  of ep. 3! ;) Just because they don't show it destroyed it was! Have you seen the old cartoon clone wars? One of the last episodes they show a giant battle in coruscant.

non canon: And in the backstory of Rends coruscant city/streets it says BOTH eras fight there!! :whistle:
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: BlackScorpion on June 12, 2012, 09:20:05 AM
"I suppose, but then how is the audience meant to know who that bad guys are? Sure in many war films this is a central theme. That there is no such thing as an "enemy," in the end they're just people (see Bridge over the River Kwai... Tora! Tora! Tora! and countless others)
But I don't think it was appropriately executed in the Prequels."

I believe we're lead to "sympathize" (as much as I know you wouldn't like the use of this word :)) with the clones because they were developed out of necessity in response to the army of the C.I.S.


Quote from: Unit 33 on June 12, 2012, 05:51:10 AM
I suppose the rise of power is sort of a mirroring of the rise of Fascism in Italy and in Germany in the 1920s-30s.
.Corrupt unstable politics...
."threat" from an outside source (Socialism... the CIS?)
.Scapegoating (Socialists... Religious groups... Jedi?)
.War catylisises Support (positive/negative)
.A Single "savour" leader who can take decisions rather than have the weak government(s) squabble amongst them selves.
.Some kind of martyrdom (Reichstag fire.... Supposed attack by the Jedi)
.Senate loses power and gets kicked out

That reminds me. It bothered me most that Coruscant seemed totally unaffected by the War.
(In the films the planet looks absolutely fine despite the giant space battle and years of war).


ANYWAY
Palpatine wouldn't have to face the whole Council if he went for an old fashioned coup d'etat and just seized power by using the two colossal armies.

OR
He could used the war as an excuse for the militarisation, and then by surprise both sides strike Coruscant and eliminate the Jedi under his orders?
It seems wasteful to just turn off the Droids when he's done with them. He could claim that the Clone armies had seized the control ships.
So when Order 66 happens, the Droids and Clones simultaneously attack the Jedi.


There was an /r/AskReddit thread on best fan theories 13 days ago which offered a relevant idea (I realized I can't post the link because I re-read the poster's comment that I linked to and it has a bad word):
The main idea in one of the paragraphs: "In short, the Republic was completely and utterly unprepared for a real invasion, from a force that wasn't being controlled by a puppetmaster who was preventing either side from gaining an advantage until the moment was right. The kinds of fleets that were commonplace in the Empire would have been impossible for the Republic to even agree to create, let alone have the wherewithal to actually build. What Palpatine did was take a failing system and tear it out by the roots, replacing it with a brutally efficient, military-industrial focused society - one that could adequately prepare for an invasion of the scale of the Yuuzhan Vong were already beginning."


The comment's TL;DR: "TL;DR: The Emperor destroyed the Republic and built Death Stars to fight off an extragalactic invasion."

But yeah, I think you hit a bullseye that the Star Wars films are an allegory to WWII (well, I think some films would be more relatable to the Cold War, but that's another discussion).
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Darth Verik on June 12, 2012, 11:44:30 AM
Unit, do you still have that essay, as you continue to call fasinating facts, i would like to read that essay of yours in which i think there are a lot more of these kind of facts.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 12, 2012, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: Darth Verik on June 12, 2012, 11:44:30 AM
Unit, do you still have that essay, as you continue to call fasinating facts, i would like to read that essay of yours in which i think there are a lot more of these kind of facts.
It was hand written, and never returned by my teacher since they wanted to use it as an example for future students (Sorry about the slight gloat).

I do have an essay comparing The War of the Worlds with 20,000 Leagues under the sea though.... :graduated:
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Joseph on June 12, 2012, 07:36:13 PM
The plot of the prequel series is incoherent. I enjoy them mainly for their visual effects
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on June 13, 2012, 01:44:55 AM
Sums it up.
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newlaunches.com%2Fentry_images%2F0609%2F12%2Fgeorge-lucas-now-and-then.jpg&hash=ef713d0ca60f0c5ccbe067c7eeaf074c21fa2aa6)
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: tirpider on June 13, 2012, 01:58:11 AM
One of those pics is not like the other.
:P

It's like Grand Theft Industry.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Helios on June 13, 2012, 04:26:16 AM
Well although the first three original films are AMAZING! if i had to choose between episodes 1,2,and 3 i would
most likely go with Episode 3 because it shows the viewer:

1.It shows how Darth Vader came to be.

2.Explains how Luke and Leia Skywalker came to be.

3.How the Empire had begun.

4. As well as the Swag Phase 2 501st
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: {Alpha}Sgt.Gamma on July 03, 2012, 07:23:55 PM
II, because the stormtroopers were awesome in it.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: {212}Leader.Arrow on July 03, 2012, 07:42:17 PM
I: I love Qui Gon and Darth Maul....even though they both die. :'(
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Dbiz on July 03, 2012, 10:11:23 PM
Its kinda funny how a simple poll can spark such in depth philosophical conversations.

Ahh...the power of Star Wars.  George really did do a good thing I think we can all agree.

As far as my favorite episode, it goes to Revenge of the Sith  after all it is the climax of the whole series.   
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Joseph on July 04, 2012, 04:36:13 PM
Nah...George botched up everything he could. It was the other producers/directors/etc who kept him sane for the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Kit Fisto on July 04, 2012, 05:55:19 PM
Because of the Star Wars franchise George Lucas is one of the richest men in the world. :ohmy:
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Helios on July 07, 2012, 06:12:31 AM
lol and ur suprised by by this?
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: kaching335 on July 07, 2012, 12:26:06 PM
I dislike the prequels as a whole, but Episode I is the best of them because it feels much closer to the original trilogy, and it has Darth
Maul and Jar Jar. I liked seeing 3PO in it as well. Episodes II & III are good too, dont get me wrong, but they dont feel anything like the
original movies. The Clone Wars is overrated, they only have better games. Only good gcw game is lego star wars 2. Then theres the jedi knight series shortly after which are pretty cool.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: Unit 33 on July 07, 2012, 12:39:46 PM
Quote from: kaching335 on July 07, 2012, 12:26:06 PM
Only good gcw game is lego star wars 2.

(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnintendookie.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F07%2Ftake-off-and-stay-high-200410110746074321.jpg&hash=4e135f2d1475d432b19a3ea51b0bc35ffe986363)

The Rogue Squadron Series begs to differ.
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: tirpider on July 07, 2012, 12:49:30 PM
The X-Wing and Tie Fighter series were the only reason I even bothered with getting into PC's.
Otherwise I would have stuck to Pokemon.

There hasn't been a decent space combat/flight sim since.
(I miss my flight stick)
Title: Re: Which is better Star Wars Episode I,II, or III
Post by: kaching335 on July 07, 2012, 06:39:19 PM
Good point. I tend to forget about those since I dont like those kinds of games
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