Is the Radar mod a cheat or is it not... and is it available to the public?
It's very naughty and no it is generally not given out to the general public.
oh lol ;) Y so though???
If everyone had it the game would be no fun, but one person using it is still no fun :dry: , it is for cheaters ;)
Quote from: 501st Commander Sharpshot on September 17, 2012, 01:26:51 PM
Is the Radar mod a cheat or is it not...
lol, way to open up a huge back of worms
Enabling radar is trivial, regulating its use is essentially impossible, being a puritan about it is fruitless.
Lol true Ecko :D and yes it is hard to monitor who uses Radar, but my clan usually doesn't play with suspected cheaters/clans ;)
I do not consider radar a cheat. I think it is fun to fight people who use it, more of a challenge, and not a cheat when used properly. But ultimately, it is the server host who has the final say in whether or not such a mod is allowed. If unspecified, I assume they don't care.The knowledge is on these forums (in a certain thread I won't link to directly) how to create it, but AFAIK a public mod has not been released for all the download.
Quote from: Phobos on September 17, 2012, 02:56:44 PM
I do not consider radar a cheat. I think it is fun to fight people who use it, more of a challenge, and not a cheat when used properly. But ultimately, it is the server host who has the final say in whether or not such a mod is allowed. If unspecified, I assume they don't care.The knowledge is on these forums (in a certain thread I won't link to directly) how to create it, but AFAIK a public mod has not been released for all the download.
Maybe :happy: , but it is still an unfair advantage for those of us who don't want radar or don't need it :rant:
Whether it's a cheat or not is determined by whether or not there is an expectation that the radar not be used.
As to the related, yet unasked, question as to whether or not it's fair, I leave this slightly relevant quotation from The Rev. Dr. Sir Stephen T. Colbert's I Am America (And So Can You!), for the sole reason that it's a funny excerpt:
"[...] Think of it as a ladder. No matter what rung you're born on, you have the exact same opportunity as everyone else to get to the top. Sure, you might say that some folks have less distance to climb up than others, or that many of the lower rungs are slippy because they're covered with garbage and your high school didn't have an AP Ladder Climbing class, and the rung right above you is out of order and your landlord keeps saying he's going to fix it but he never does and all the while the guy who hangs out on the corner of your rung is constantly trying to get you high, and you're wondering if maybe you could get a little help up this ladder? Well, Mister, all the help you need is at your fingertips, if your fingertips are touching your ankles. I'm talking about bootstraps.
You can always pull yourself up by your bootstraps or turn the lemons life has given you into lemonade. [...]"
Quote from: {212}Mart on September 17, 2012, 03:12:50 PM
Maybe :happy: , but it is still an unfair advantage for those of us who don't want radar or don't need it :rant:
Strong pro-self trolling. :-D
Quote from: {212}Mart on September 17, 2012, 03:12:50 PM
Maybe :happy: , but it is still an unfair advantage for those of us who don't want radar or don't need it :rant:
Define fair and unfair as you see it.
If any player in the server has the option to use a certain mod, I would consider it a 'fair advantage' for them to use it if they so chose. However if only the host or a certain team or selection of players could use a specific mod, then I would consider it an 'unfair advantage' (an example of this would be making imperial rockets lock on to enemy units). Radar can be used by any players and there is no way for server to disable it (so far). This is my opinion and I am not trying to argue with anyone who disagrees, just saying things how I see it.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_competition
Unfair competition may occur in games if a participant in some way deviates from the rules of the game, or has privileged access to important information or resources that should in principle be available to all participants in the game, or none of them. Participation in the game normally assumes that participants have an equal ability to compete in relevant respects, or are able to acquire it during the game.
The resources needed for radar mod have been publicly available ever since the modding tools were released in 2004, but I would say it has only recently been used by a size-able portion of the SWBF player base. I wonder if over time the controversy regarding this mod will subside. There are far bigger cheats for this game out there. :wacko:
Two things you have gone wrong with. A. You are getting your information from Wikipedia. B. Not everyone knows about the radar mod ergo an unfair advantage for the players that are using it. Thus why I would classify it as a cheat. And to counteract your the resources are there statement, well the resources are there for anyone who knows how to make an aimbot one that could potentially work in a dedicated server environment. So going by your logic I could make an aimbot and it wouldn't be cheating for me to use it right?
Quote from: SleepKiller on September 17, 2012, 04:39:37 PM
Two things you have gone wrong with. A. You are getting your information from Wikipedia. B. Not everyone knows about the radar mod ergo an unfair advantage for the players that are using it. Thus why I would classify it as a cheat. And to counteract your the resources are there statement, well the resources are there for anyone who knows how to make an aimbot one that could potentially work in a dedicated server environment. So going by your logic I could make an aimbot and it wouldn't be cheating for me to use it right?
A) Wikipedia from my experience is about 60-70% accurate. Unless you care to elaborate on why you feel my specific quote was invalid, then it shows you are disagreeing with me just for the sake of disagreeing without any reasoning to support it. I do not feel the quote I posted is invalid in this case I agree with what wikipedia has to say.
B) Not everyone knows about radar mod, that is true, but that fact alone doesn't make it a cheat. Not everybody knows they can mod crosshairs or unit skins, are those cheats? Not everyone knows you can play at a higher resolution than the in game options allow for by using battlebelk's custom resolution launcher. Is that also a cheat? By your logic anything that the least knowledgeable player in SWBF is unaware of is considered a cheat. I could not disagree more. I would say that since the knowledge is public, and even on SWBFGAMERS, it is fair game for anyone to use those instructions and build their own radar mod. It is likewise unfair in my opinion to expect players to limit their overall game experience (tournaments excluded ofc) just because a few noobs don't know how or have any incentive to mod.
The resources needed to create aimbots that work through /noaim have
1) not even been provably confirmed to exist, only in theory
and 2) were never included with any modding tools pandemic released.
Also I was (am) referring strictly to MODS ONLY when I say that if any client/player can build it and use it in any server, I don't consider it a cheat. HACKS and memory changes are a completely different matter and I would NOT say the same logic applies. Aimbots by my logic are always considered cheats, unless you enable it equally for every single player in the server. Kind of hard to do if you're not the host I imagine.
How is it a challenge if you can see where everyone is on the map? Also some don't know how to make it. :whip:
Yes I have to say that it may have an unfair advantage when you are the only one that has it playing on a public server... Unless allowed by the host thus not making it a cheat. Or it could be fair if both the Server had it as an add-on map.
Maybe Led would be willing to officially state whether or not radar is allowed in PLA servers. I don't want to speak for him although we have discussed this on xfire a few times.
Im not really saying {PLA}Servers but in general. :)
If it is not a cheat, upload it here, see what happens :rofl:
Quote from: {212}Mart on September 17, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
If it is not a cheat, upload it here, see what happens :rofl:
I would not do that if I were you.
Yes i think that download button would get abused! :P
Kit, i know, he would'nt dare upload it here, since um you know its a cheat :cheers:
Ok man dont go provoke any one this is a friendly community man. >:(
Just saying lol, :cow: :( i forgot thing for the cow emotician
Yes but common you could be a little more courteous!
Quote from: SleepKiller on September 17, 2012, 04:39:37 PM
Two things you have gone wrong with. A. You are getting your information from Wikipedia.
Therefore it is wrong. Lol. I would link you to the wikipedia page on logical fallacies...
QuoteB. Not everyone knows about the radar mod ergo an unfair advantage for the players that are using it. Thus why I would classify it as a cheat.
There's a phrase called "leveling the playing field". It sounds ghastly to those who choose to take a hardline stance against mods in competitive situations, because it sounds like an unacceptable blow to the integrity of the game. Parallels can be drawn to steroids in baseball. But unlike in baseball, showing everyone how to use radar is immeasurably more efficient than actually trying to control whether a player uses radar. In fact, since radar already exists and is used by many players, it is more fair to give everyone the resources/ability to use it and make their own mind up about it, than to try to close off that option.
If this is impermissible for you, then continuing to decry the use of radar is your right. But it won't convince anyone who already uses it, and will only increase the division between the haves and have-nots.
QuoteAnd to counteract your the resources are there statement, well the resources are there for anyone who knows how to make an aimbot one that could potentially work in a dedicated server environment. So going by your logic I could make an aimbot and it wouldn't be cheating for me to use it right?
In this case, control is more efficient than education and dissemination (it would be pretty obvious and the person could be banned).
Please note I am not remarking on whether or not radar is cheating, only comparing the options of how to deal with it. I advocate making the mod publicly and easily available on this website, even though I know that will probably never happen.
QuoteB) Not everyone knows about radar mod, that is true, but that fact alone doesn't make it a cheat. Not everybody knows they can mod crosshairs or unit skins, are those cheats? Not everyone knows you can play at a higher resolution than the in game options allow for by using battlebelk's custom resolution launcher. Is that also a cheat? By your logic anything that the least knowledgeable player in SWBF is unaware of is considered a cheat. I could not disagree more. I would say that since the knowledge is public, and even on SWBFGAMERS, it is fair game for anyone to use those instructions and build their own radar mod. It is likewise unfair in my opinion to expect players to limit their overall game experience (tournaments excluded ofc) just because a few noobs don't know how or have any incentive to mod.
exactly
Quote from: Joseph on September 17, 2012, 05:47:53 PM
Please note I am not remarking on whether or not radar is cheating, only comparing the options of how to deal with it. I advocate making the mod publicly and easily available on this website, even though I know that will probably never happen.
Lol, the funny thing is that it already is publicly available here, on a certain sticky thread to be specific. One just has to punch in the codes, munge and there you go. I just don't think anyone is going to bother uploading a 200mb+ radar mod here. I'm not advocating anything, just stating facts. :cheers:
As I have said to anyone that has talked to me about it, I can not enforce a ban on radar mods in the public PLA servers. If I can not enforce it, then I think it would be pretty useless to try to say that I am banning it.
I have also said that if /noradar were a server option like /noaim is an option I would turn it on.
Exactly meaning that it is not a hack on most terms being allowed on {PLA} Servers. Im pretty sure [FC] Allows it on their servers also.
Quote from: Buckler on September 17, 2012, 06:08:59 PM
As I have said to anyone that has talked to me about it, I can not enforce a ban on radar mods in the public PLA servers. If I can not enforce it, then I think it would be pretty useless to try to say that I am banning it.
I have also said that if /noradar were a server option like /noaim is an option I would turn it on.
The resources exist to create a /noradar for the server exe, they are just not available to the public :(
I am referring to the source code. It could be made in theory if we had the game and/or server exe source.
Quote from: 501st Commander Sharpshot on September 17, 2012, 06:12:37 PM
Exactly meaning that it is not a hack on most terms being allowed on {PLA} Servers. Im pretty sure [FC] Allows it on their servers also.
Correct. I can't really think of any public servers which have explicitly prohibited the use of radar, except for the tournament servers Led is hosting.
Oh yea and just for the heck of it, here's excerpt from a conversation I had with Habi several months ago
[spoiler]
Quote[FC]Ldr.Rage: i know you have radar
{U.E.F} Eternal'Habi: yes i do
[FC]Ldr.Rage: some players say its cheat
{U.E.F} Eternal'Habi: its no cheat
{U.E.F} Eternal'Habi: its an atvantage
{U.E.F} Eternal'Habi: and i use it
{U.E.F} Eternal'Habi: in my opinion only high skilled players should gain this
{U.E.F} Eternal'Habi: because if you are high skilled you can get better with mm. if you are not, you first can get much better improving your skill
[/spoiler]
Quote from: 501st Commander Sharpshot on September 17, 2012, 06:12:37 PM
Exactly meaning that it is not a hack on most terms being allowed on {PLA} Servers. Im pretty sure [FC] Allows it on their servers also.
What it means is that I can't stop anyone from using it. It means nothing more or less that the preceding statement.
I dont think Radar is a cheat, I think its just a normal mod, like Xhairs modded (common.lvl s).
As I know bcuz Led gave me the link for swbfgamers.com and pla servers, its not allowed, but I know of some who use it there.
As I was in UEF I knew clan mates I had, and Habi has the radar and he has it by a ''legal'' way (I mean, he didnt mod).
And as Mortal told me, he dislikes that ppl use Radar in their server/s.
This is my opinion you don't have to share it ;)
In a way I think most mods are cheats, there's obvious ones like radar and transparency and minor ones like player skins that are easier to see, if I'm in a public server I like to be in the same position as a player who is playing for the first time as I think too many mods being used by the top players can quickly ruin a community. For example with radar I like the suspense of creeping around not knowing where anyone is and I like other players to be in the same situation.
However cheats/mods are just a point of view and I know some players complain about fastspawn changing the game so to me as long as people are honest about what they use and we all have a choice about where and who we play with no one should be forced out for wanting to try something diffent as long as it doesn't ruin the game for others.
To sum up variety is good, forcing things on others is bad. :)
Warning: This thread contains OPINIONS.
Lol funny but very true Regent!
Not sure if you guys have noticed this before but I have. Whoever took picture of the site logo at top of page was using radar.
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/Themes/silentwave_20rc4b/images/custom/logo.png)
or it was during galactic conquest and he had the radar bonus... :P
OR it was the single player and the only place its ok to be used !!!!!! :o :ohmy: :rofl: :slap: :moo: :wave: :whip:
Lol iv'e never noticed that :P , nice pick up :D
Quote from: Phobos on September 18, 2012, 06:14:52 PM
Not sure if you guys have noticed this before but I have. Whoever took picture of the site logo at top of page was using radar.
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/Themes/silentwave_20rc4b/images/custom/logo.png)
Or maybe just maybe he was playing in Singleplayer. You do know you can see enemy units in Singleplayer right?
Quote from: SleepKiller on September 18, 2012, 08:55:16 PM
Or maybe just maybe he was playing in Singleplayer. You do know you can see enemy units in Singleplayer right?
might be someting with the mac game but I can only see friendly players in singleplayer just like in multiplayer. But when the reinforcements go below 15-10 I can see all enemy units. ( that is also in multiplayer ) But in galactic conquest when i choose the radar bonus I can see all enemy units on the map.
I think radar is a cheat and takes out a lot of fun.
Quote from: Phobos on September 18, 2012, 06:14:52 PM
Not sure if you guys have noticed this before but I have. Whoever took picture of the site logo at top of page was using radar.
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/Themes/silentwave_20rc4b/images/custom/logo.png)
I made the banner, and all of the stuff in it is from Google Images. So I wouldn't know.
Or maybe it's a massive conspiracy.
Or they are playing single player.
LoL everybody said that many times, I think we all got it ^_^
Quote from: ImmortaL Anyder on September 19, 2012, 06:20:08 AM
LoL everybody said that many times, I think we all got it ^_^
I don't want to be late, but has anybody said that the screenshot could be taken in single player?
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.pokemondb.net%2Fartwork%2Fslowpoke.jpg&hash=90e9f8df8ec9912d9e625a6292450a45df2cb140)
What's this about single player...????
On single player you can see the bots on the minimap...i think, i've never played single player for online swbf pc :P ;) :moo: :whip:
That picture was probs taken from single player. Idk if anyone knows this, but you can see the enemy units on their.
On a side note, don't most games have a radar?
except for the fact that in different games it doesn't perfectly show their location, whether it is delayed or only in a certain area or only when moving or their dot only flashes periodically when the radar sweep goes across that part of the mini map.
Regardless of the situation, radar is in fact being used in the image.
Quote from: «ΙΞ¢KØ» on September 19, 2012, 02:22:10 PM
That picture was probs taken from single player. Idk if anyone knows this, but you can see the enemy units on their.
I think that might actually be true but I don't remember since I haven't even played singleplayer in years.
It's funny how worked up some people get over other people's mods :rofl:
I think it might have been taken in single player..
Because most games have radar such as CoD, I don't play them. Thanks a lot you lame people who produced the radar hack. you sure did make a great improvement in the modding field. I give the finger to the creators. :rofl:
Just to clarify on Easy in singleplayer you can see all the bots on the mini-map both friendly and enemies.
I just took this picture no mods installed on the map, nothing done to the sides and no common.lvl modifications.
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs13.postimage.org%2F4722s6rc3%2Fscreenshot_0001.jpg&hash=80309b657ac466e2f56d315733b1027d8a755490) (http://postimage.org/image/4722s6rc3/)
Quote from: Jamman on September 19, 2012, 03:51:28 PM
Because most games have radar such as CoD, I don't play them. Thanks a lot you lame people who produced the radar hack. you sure did make a great improvement in the modding field. I give the finger to the creators. :rofl:
I have no respect for you now that you just called psych0fred lame. If it wasn't for him there wouldn't even be any modding tools. It's already been stated by several people here, countless times that mods are not hacks but no point explaining it again. What a shame this community has people like you bashing the game devs.
Quote from: SleepKiller on September 19, 2012, 03:54:59 PM
Just to clarify on Easy in singleplayer you can see all the bots on the mini-map both friendly and enemies.
I just took this picture no mods installed on the map, nothing done to the sides and no common.lvl modifications.
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs13.postimage.org%2F4722s6rc3%2Fscreenshot_0001.jpg&hash=80309b657ac466e2f56d315733b1027d8a755490) (http://postimage.org/image/4722s6rc3/)
How amazing that skin looks. :tu:
Quote from: Jamman on September 19, 2012, 03:51:28 PM
Because most games have radar such as CoD, I don't play them. Thanks a lot you lame people who produced the radar hack. you sure did make a great improvement in the modding field. I give the finger to the creators. :rofl:
This absolutely has nothing to do with either the topic or your point, but, generally, you will only show up on the radar in the Call of Duty games for two circumstances: (i) if you fire a weapon that does not have a silencer (or suppressor in Black Ops) you will appear on the minimap as a static dot or (ii) if the other team has a UAV or Spy Plane in the air you will appear as a more dynamic red dot but you can become invisible to them with certain perks and in certain games you can even take out the aircraft.
Thats what I was inferring too BlackScorpion. But in those games you can either do something to become invisible to them, or they show only in the brief radar swipe. Im not arguing for or against radar, just bringing up the question if this radar is to over powered.
Quote from: Phobos on September 19, 2012, 04:45:06 PM
How amazing that skin looks. :tu:
I don't get it. :shrug:
I believe its a skin that hes laughing at bro. No worries. :cheers:
Of course, Phobos, you are pro radar, and bash others for stating their opinion about how modders who make radar and other hacks ruin this game and deserve the finger.
Im staring at your name, and my finger is maybe an inch away. I just wish you could see it.
I understand you 2 have your differences, but is this truly the place to bicker.
Quote from: Jamman on September 19, 2012, 05:44:33 PM
Of course, Phobos, you are pro radar, and bash others for stating their opinion about how modders who make radar and other hacks ruin this game and deserve the finger.
Im staring at your name, and my finger is maybe an inch away. I just wish you could see it.
Don't mean to be a juinor moderator but
everybody calm down. If you guys all hate or love radar so much then just play singleplayer and you won't have to worry about anything. ;)
OR
settle it in a no radar match and see who is better! :)
Quote from: Jamman on September 19, 2012, 05:44:33 PM
Of course, Phobos, you are pro radar, and bash others for stating their opinion about how modders who make radar and other hacks ruin this game and deserve the finger.
Im staring at your name, and my finger is maybe an inch away. I just wish you could see it.
Like I said, your words mean nothing since you have destroyed any credibility you might have had by insulting Psych0fred. How exactly does radar ruin the game? Maybe only for you or someone who has to rely on flanking to win, but not most players. You don't even deserve an opinion in my opinion.
Classic quote sums up this mentality
Quote from: Wild"The ESS council believes that every war is based on the ability to flank"
Quote from: Kit Fisto on September 19, 2012, 05:46:26 PM
OR
settle it in a no radar match and see who is better! :)
Been there, done that, the cries don't change.
exactly Kitfisto, please take these problems elsewhere, if Kit's a junior moderator then im a Pre-junior moderator. :whip:
Quote from: Kit Fisto on September 19, 2012, 05:46:26 PM
settle it in a no radar match and see who is better! :)
(https://www.swbfgamers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb58378%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2F8%2F8f%2FKit_Smile.jpg&hash=7d25b1d103c0dfbfa1c40041a727c31dd65fa71c)
Quote from: Jamman on September 19, 2012, 05:44:33 PM
Of course, Phobos, you are pro radar, and bash others for stating their opinion about how modders who make radar and other hacks ruin this game and deserve the finger.
Im staring at your name, and my finger is maybe an inch away. I just wish you could see it.
why are you incapable of being civil? everyone in this thread has defended their views (some better than others), all you've done is said "radar sux F-U M.F."
LOL JOSEPH :rofl: :XD: Hes just trying to help though.
Kit, unless they, a suspected minimapper and someone else, take a video of the whole match and then sit down and view it...there is no way to see if they are using radar :/
unless hes looking directly at where hes hiding or comes up from behind him and throws a nade.
Lol alright The amount of bickering surrounding a video game hack is concerning. Just be easy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhdOOBbFo8), it's a video game guys. Live and let live.
Thank you Based God Thank you :moo:
Quote from: jdee-barc on September 19, 2012, 06:18:12 PM
Lol alright The amount of bickering surrounding a video game hack is concerning. Just be easy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhdOOBbFo8), it's a video game guys. Live and let live.
Expressed in other terms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: LOL BLACKSCORPION what humour people have on this site.
Funny how within 2 days this thread has become the 4th biggest thread in the SWBF general topics sub-forum.
Yeah, i think this topic has burnt itself out.
So does that mean you guys will lock it?
Ah, I forgot to lock it.