Generic Radar Dicussions 2.0

[Helios]

{212} are promptly against radar yet they have it? Not trying to start anything but a bit hypocritical dont you think nixo? I understand you can speak for yourself but not for your entire clan.

[Black Water]

{212} are promptly against radar yet they have it? Not trying to start anything but a bit hypocritical dont you think nixo? I understand you can speak for yourself but not for your entire clan.

What if we have it? I've made radar but so what? Doesn't mean we'll use it in tournaments. I find it a little annoying and rude that an admin is calling a clan out.

[Helios]

What if we have it? I've made radar but so what? Doesn't mean we'll use it in tournaments.

That means nothing unless you have proof, lets not carry on this discussiom here.

[Black Water]

That means nothing unless you have proof, lets not carry on this discussiom here.

Proof of what? The tournament has not even started and you are already accusing us of using radar. Man, the irony.

[Demihn Inferat Anssi Kelail]

Arguing about radar is like arguing about religion

[WusiBabyEater]

I would like to see Helios and Rage use radar in a different game online and see what happens, that would be funny. lol

[Phobos]

I would like to see Helios and Rage use radar in a different game online and see what happens, that would be funny. lol

There are plenty of other games where it is even more accepted than in swbf1 as part of the game and nobody complains about it.  LoL this is the only game I can think of where ppl make such a big deal over mods. I'd like to see you get over it one day.

[[FC]Elite]

There are plenty of other games where it is even more accepted than in swbf1 as part of the game and nobody complains about it.

Call of Duty games would be one of them.

[WusiBabyEater]

Call of Duty games would be one of them.

oh please don't get me started with COD games....lol that's why you play it

[[FC]Elite]

oh please don't get me started with COD games....lol that's why you play it

I play it because its fun and somewhat realistic. Nobody whines about uav in CoD lol. This is kinda off topic now since its another game.

[WusiBabyEater]

I play it because its fun and somewhat realistic. Nobody whines about uav in CoD lol. This is kinda off topic now since its another game.

I don't know if you're trolling but UAV is not a mod,its part of the vanilla game and COD is an arcade shooter---not realistic

[[FC]Elite]

I don't know if you're trolling but UAV is not a mod,its part of the vanilla game and COD is an arcade shooter---not realistic

What im trying to point out is that nobody complains about UAV in cod. When you get 3 kills you get the option to use it or not just like in swbf were you have the option to use it or not.

[WusiBabyEater]

What im trying to point out is that nobody complains about UAV in cod. When you get 3 kills you get the option to use it or not just like in swbf were you have the option to use it or not.

because UAV is originally in it but the radar hack in swbf wasn't in vanilla game and should of never been an option. Radars not supposed be in swbf because it ruins the online that's the reason why its so hard to organize a tournament like this.

[Kit Fisto]

Real world= Conservative VS Liberal

SWBFI world= Radar VS No Radar

[BlackScorpion]

Led, feel free to delete this post if you feel it should be--if that's the case and Phobos doesn't see it, could you forward it to him?  I'm blocked.

I'll preface this with my opinion on radar: it's not my cup of tea.  That said, I don't think that the use of radar significantly changes ability and as long as people are honest about whether or not they use radar, it's not worth the arguments that it raises.

Also, very few—if any—of my comments in this private message will make sense when out of context.

Minimap hack is not radar mod, they are not the same thing. Sniper Autoaim is a mod yea because you mod the ODF, its a hack when you develop a trainer that alters the memory. true victory is not about only flanking and relying on cheap kills, its about winning all types of battles, whether from behind or up front. Using radar mod does not mean you're using a minimap hack, since you didn't hack the game memory or build a trainer, you just modded the LVL, like a sniper autoaim ODF. or heat seeking rocket. difference is AA mods are server side mods that can ruin the game, unlike radar which is client side and not forcably limited to certain teams/units. its funny how someone who knows nothing about modding or hacking constantly confuses the plain and simple differences. trainers and lvl files are completely different, not the same thing, one is a hack, the other is a mod. this thread is a vote about radar mod, nothing about hacks.

pandemic added /noaim because they felt AA could be abused. they did not add /noradar because they did not feel radar could be abused. both mods are ODF based.

It seems as if your attempt to distinguish sniper auto aim mod from minimap mod—with respect to the ICW—on the grounds that the former is a host-side mod while the latter is a client-side mod is inappropriate (but it's inapposite only in specific cases, such as the ICW).  If there's a general rule against using auto aim, it'll involve the /noaim command.  The /noaim commands curtails auto aim for all players, affecting all player's ability to use auto aim equally.  If there's a general rule against radar, it—just like the /noaim command—will affect all player's ability to use radar equally.

Additionally, I see a distinction in your notion that the presence of the /noaim and the absence of a  /noradar command means that Pandemic  "did not feel radar could be abused."  When Pandemic released the game, they did so without the knowledge that people would change the scanning and transmit range whereas they released the game knowing that people might possibly want to use a controller while playing SWBF.  Just because they dealt with the devil they knew of does not mean that they approve of the devil they didn't know.  (Because you're probably thinking that I have some sort of vendetta against FC, I will state that this distinction falls apart if it can be proven that Pandemic knew that people would expand radar—see my comments to your next post.)

So does the STOCK AT-AT walkers on Hoth. It was in the ODF for that vehicle I discovered psych0fred's notes on scanning and transmit range. Inarguable proof that the ODF mod code for radar support was added to swbf1 by pandemic intentionally.

With respect to your last sentence, you are ABSOLUTELY right that that the presence of certain instances of radar in the stock version shows that Pandemic intentionally implemented radar support.  However, there's a pretty large jump from Pandemic intentionally allowing radar in limited conditions to allowing radar in every condition.  That said, I commend you for not explicitly making this jump. 

You specifically said"any mod that gives an advantage." Map skins with removed brush give an advantage, so now you are contradicting yourself by claiming that you aren't against maps and reskins.

Radar is a mod that gives a fair advantage, it is fair because every player can choose to use it or not. It would only be unfair if certain players players could not use the mod, but there is nothing a server host can do to prevent radar, thus making it FAIR. You can't just claim radar is unfair because you CHOOSE not to use it. If you were unable to choose to use radar, then you could argue it is unfair. Like glitching in a wall, once you are in the wall you can kill others without being killed, and prevent them from getting in the wall, this is an example of an unfair advantage. Radar provides a slight advantage to those who choose to utilize it, giving players more information about the battle, and is always available to any players (unless the server is using a mod map specifically designed to counter radar use)

The radar mod has not ruined traditional values and settings because it has existed before any tournaments did, or even modding itself. It did not ruin the first two ICWs and would not ruin this one.

You note that "there is nothing a server host can do to prevent radar, thus making it FAIR," which seems to imply that if there were something that a server host could do to prevent radar, then radar would be unfair.  Do  you mean that if a server host could selectively prevent radar, then radar would be unfair?  If you did, I agree with that.   But nowhere do you say anything about a host selectively preventing radar, just that radar in general is prevented which would mean that everybody is playing without radar (or, with radar if there was a way to force radar).

Your second point about how the only people who can argue that radar is unfair are those unable to install radar is, in general, a good point to whose spirit I subscribe.

Finally, the radar mod did NOT exist before modding—but this is an issue I've addressed earlier.

Your ord mantel example was irrelevent and made no sense, so i didn't ignore it, it was already invalidated. You say mods suck but really you just have no respect for the time and effort modders have put into helping this community stay alive.

Radar mod is not a hack like i said, it expands gameplay to higher levels, quoting wikipedia is generally frowned upon here as welll just ask SK.

Generally I see play style difference like this:
Radar = Calculating your next move, seeing where enemies are, trying to make the best decision what CP to go to, more strategic, more action, more planning required than just random flanking, etc.
No radar = blind guessing where to go, hoping that through sheer luck you will make the right strategic move, limited less skill play, etc.
I Already said Fred created it, not me. You can't hack or mod, and if you dont waste time modding then why do you waste so much time complaining about people who mod or use mods? Just to be a mod hater troll ofc.
in my opinion people who complain about swbf mods suck

I'm just curious, what factors other than map layout—in that nobody wants to capture the CFC, regardless of whether or not they have radar—make a CP desirable to capture?

Also, I'm curious of your definition of "action."  It seems to me that, all other things being equal, knowing one's opponent's location could allow you to dispatch them quicker.  The engagements would be faster, sure, but there would be less fighting, which seems to indicate less action.

Saluting the guy who says all swbf mods suck, really says alot about you. Radar is not bad just because you think it is, as I have already explained that it is a fair advantage, like skins and no brush map mods. So your opinion is your opinion, but not one backed by logic.
That might be sig worthy itself.
Pretty much, anyone who is calling radar or any other mod a hack over and over is trying to derail the thread.

(Emphasis added.)

Where do you describe "skins and no brush mod maps" as being, presumably in general, a fair advantage?  The abilities required to make a no brush mod map greatly exceed those required to make the radar mod, meaning that unless a no brush mod map is shared, it's an unfair advantage because it's not really readily accessible.