Because many of the problems last week are a result of the rules not being clear enough, I am going to announce a handful of amendments (=additions and clarifications, not changes) to the ICW rules at the beginning. Then we can interpret the three contested battles in light of the amendments (with an eye towards fairness and not simply literalism).
Amendment 1 (Clan membership)
All participating clans must maintain a member-list. The list can be updated over time, but must obey the following rules:
(a) A player may appear on at most one list.
(b) Once a player appears on a list, they cannot be removed from that list.
When counting players before a battle, for clan A, the players whose name appears on A's list are counted as "members", and all who remain are counted as "mercenaries".
Discussion
The above is absolutely unambiguous, but I will spell it out below.
1. For the purposes of the ICW3, each participating clan forms a unit. These clans are, for all I care, the only clans in the universe. Anyone not in these clans is considered to be clanless. So, if you are a member of Alpha (say), I consider you clanless in the ICW3. I don't care that you're in Alpha any more than I care about the other clans you're in for other games, or which school you attend in real life, etc.
2. Now, the members of a clan, for the sake of the ICW, do not need to be the "real" members of the clan. That is, if a player who is not "officially" a member of clan A, declares that they are an "acting" member of clan A for ICW purposes, then they will be counted as an A-member.
3. But your clan is fixed for the entire ICW. You can't change.
4. Therefore if you wish to help other clans after your clan is eliminated, you must do so as a Mercenary.
5. Before any more battles resume, all three clans must give me their list. It can be updated arbitrarily many times, but it must obey the rules in the amendment.
6. It has to be this way and I defy anyone to (claim to) reject this rule on "moral" grounds. The reason is obvious: the tournament stops being a competition. Why bother pretending to "compete" if eliminated clans can just reassemble as stronger, more numerous entities? It would make a mockery of the entire motivation for not only the ICW, but the historic tournaments of the past such as the original GGWs.
7. Please note that if the clan on whose list your name appears is eliminated, you may still play, but you will always be a merc. If your name appears on the list of no clan, you will always be a merc (unless your name is added by some clan later).
Amendment 2 (Filming)
The admin of a match must film the match via freecam.
Corollary: An admin may not play in a match.
Discussion
1. The need for this is unfortunately clear.
2. Note that the Corollary only prohibits an admin playing in a match that they're adminning. It doesn't mean that admins can't appear on clan lists.
Verdicts on battles:
Eddie's Kastel
This battle was a legitimate ICW game. In particular, SirPimped is not penalized in any way. The video evidence against him is consistent with his story; as Scorpion says, the assumption of innocence is not refuted.
And, although the following opinion is irrelevant for the decision above, I want to add that in ICW123 I have never seen SirPimped conduct himself in any way other than sportsmanlike.
The map will be removed from rotation and replaced with another one, TBD.
Verdict: Result upheld.
Russia
It's hard to say whether Amendment 1 (=A1) was violated, because of repeated tag-switching on the part of several members. Nevertheless, A1 came after the battle; I can't enforce it retroactively. So:
Verdict: Result upheld
Harbor
According to A1, 212 seems to have violated the merc rule. Again, it's hard to say due to the tag-switching that has occurred throughout the tournament. But, this will not be factored into the judgement for the same reasons as Russia.
Both teams violated the jet rule. It's hard to know exactly how strongly the outcome was influenced, but it seems that Rage's violation was significantly more influental than Nico's. Since 212 won anyway:
Verdict: Result upheld.
Decisions concerning specific individuals:
Phobos is suspended from Week 5 (team switching).
Majesty is suspended from Week 5 (repeated swearing).
Nico is suspended from Week 5 (violation of jet rule). Nico is a repeat offender; I'm not sympathetic that he respawned after being told to stop.
On Shazam:
Shazam's status as admin is not changed. By A2, he cannot admin while playing, since admins must film the battles.
Shazam was making some very difficult decisions. I publicly gave him explicit permission to act in my stead before Week 1. Innocent until proven guilty, and the "case" for his being guilty is extremely shaky. You might even call it a house of cards.
If Shazam really is abusing his power, then after this week, how could he possibly abuse it again? The next "abuse" will be instantly reported and he would be removed from office if it were valid. But I believe his actions this week, while maybe not optimal (but how could we expect that? This job can get complex.), do not warrant his firing.
I want to emphasize something: I am still the head of the snake. Shazam has a special role as vice-persident, so to speak, but I am at the top. If there's even a little controversy, I review it. So don't be fooled into thinking that Shazam is some despot-ruler with freedom to bend the rules to whatever he likes. That ain't so, honest-to-goodness; and Shazam knows this as well.
To be determined:
1. Whether or not we mod out special units. Please give your opinion; I'm in favor of it.
2. What will replace Eddie's Kastel?
Please alert me to any omissions. Let me warn you now that the decisions above are basically final. Your suggested improvements are not likely to be worked in somehow.
Now, let's try to make week 5 the best week yet. Since there are no rematches, we have the weekend off. Blow off some steam! These things are supposed to be fun, you know!
Quote from: Oven on September 04, 2013, 04:20:17 PM
Decisions concerning specific individuals:
Phobos is suspended from Week 5 (violation of jet rule).
Majesty is suspended from Week 5 (repeated swearing).
Nico is suspended from Week 5 (violation of jet rule). Nico is a repeat offender; I'm not sympathetic that he respawned after being told to stop.
Ok I accept this punishment but change it to violation of team switching rule since I was never a jet and also on CIS?
Page after page of crazy amount of writing, all of it, discussing behavior and rules. Most of it by "children" / teenagers. Filled with passion, zeal, and heart. (and a little bit of non-sense, of course. ;) ) Because of a few days worth of video gaming online(on a "dead" game..).
If only we could put forth this much effort into education, and things worth while.. :P
--
If I can manage to get on for week five (I've been attempting, but my schedule is tight.), I'll place my vote for the modded out units.
Quote from: Oven on September 04, 2013, 04:20:17 PM
To be determined:
1. Whether or not we mod out special units. Please give your opinion; I'm in favor of it.
2. What will replace Eddie's Kastel?
Please alert me to any omissions. Let me warn you now that the decisions above are basically final. Your suggested improvements are not likely to be worked in somehow.
1. Remove them from server mission LVL so that nobody can use jet period and reduce the chances of cheating. Make it spawn as trooper or something noob.
2. Replace Eddie's Kastel with Hoth Caves. It's already included in the ICW3 map pack as it was included as a backup replacement intended for Dagobah, but that map works fine with no glitches so use Hoth Caves that way nobody has to download anything extra.
Quote from: Phobos on September 04, 2013, 04:28:24 PM
Ok I accept this punishment but change it to violation of team switching rule since I was never a jet and also on CIS?
He might of meant when you switched teams? I'm not sure. I'll aware Nico of what has happen when I see him. I hope we didn't kill any of Ovens brain cells. :XD:
Quote from: Gen.Hond{snp} on September 04, 2013, 04:33:23 PM
He might of meant when you switched teams? I'm not sure. I'll aware Nico of what has happen when I see him. I hope we didn't kill any of Ovens brain cells. :XD:
Nah, when I switched teams I was a clone rocket.
Quote from: -RepublicCommando- on September 04, 2013, 04:31:37 PM
Because of a few days worth of video gaming online(on a "dead" game..).
If this game actually was dead this tournament would not be happening right now would it?
I agree that special units should be modded out.
Quote from: Oven on September 04, 2013, 04:20:17 PM
Amendment 1 (Clan membership)
All participating clans must maintain a member-list. The list can be updated over time, but must obey the following rules:
(a) A player may appear on at most one list.
(b) Once a player appears on a list, they cannot be removed from that list.
When counting players before a battle, for clan A, the players whose name appears on A's list are counted as "members", and all who remain are counted as "mercenaries".
Discussion
The above is absolutely unambiguous, but I will spell it out below.
1. For the purposes of the ICW3, each participating clan forms a unit. These clans are, for all I care, the only clans in the universe. Anyone not in these clans is considered to be clanless. So, if you are a member of Alpha (say), I consider you clanless in the ICW3. I don't care that you're in Alpha any more than I care about the other clans you're in for other games, or which school you attend in real life, etc.
2. Now, the members of a clan, for the sake of the ICW, do not need to be the "real" members of the clan. That is, if a player who is not "officially" a member of clan A, declares that they are an "acting" member of clan A for ICW purposes, then they will be counted as an A-member.
3. But your clan is fixed for the entire ICW. You can't change.
4. Therefore if you wish to help other clans after your clan is eliminated, you must do so as a Mercenary.
5. Before any more battles resume, all three clans must give me their list. It can be updated arbitrarily many times, but it must obey the rules in the amendment.
6. It has to be this way and I defy anyone to (claim to) reject this rule on "moral" grounds. The reason is obvious: the tournament stops being a competition. Why bother pretending to "compete" if eliminated clans can just reassemble as stronger, more numerous entities? It would make a mockery of the entire motivation for not only the ICW, but the historic tournaments of the past such as the original GGWs.
7. Please note that if the clan on whose list your name appears is eliminated, you may still play, but you will always be a merc. If your name appears on the list of no clan, you will always be a merc (unless your name is added by some clan later).
What're the retroactive measures?
What happens to the U.E.F. and En'Ten members, whose respective clans dropped out? Since neither clan submitted a list, I assume that means that they're allowed to pick a side just as long as they stick with it?
I suggest (as replacement of Kastel) Coruscant (i think its Temple, but im at laptop and i cannot check it)
Edit: after 3 try outs, i hope im finally posting.. lol
Edit 2: Well no, Scorp had to post...
Try Out #4
Edit: 3
@Scorp: Yes, i find that fair
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 04, 2013, 04:43:37 PM
I suggest (as replacement of Kastel) Coruscant (i think its Temple, but im at laptop and i cannot check it)
Edit: after 3 try outs, i hope im finally posting.. lol
Edit 2: Well no, Scorp had to post...
Try Out #4
Edit: 3
@Scorp: Yes, i find that fair
Coruscant Jedi Temple would be better than Hoth Caves but would require players to download another map pack or addon. However someone needs to test this map for glitches too first.
Oven I
highly suggest that we find more in-game admins. It would be awesome if I could play for YAK every once in a while.
Quote from: Phobos on September 04, 2013, 04:31:59 PM
1. Remove them from server mission LVL so that nobody can use jet period and reduce the chances of cheating. Make it spawn as trooper or something noob.
2. Replace Eddie's Kastel with Hoth Caves. It's already included in the ICW3 map pack as it was included as a backup replacement intended for Dagobah, but that map works fine with no glitches so use Hoth Caves that way nobody has to download anything extra.
I am in favor of modding out special units. It's so simple to do, even I can do it! ;)
I would like to replace Eddies Kastel with Hoth Caves, as well.
As far as i know Sleepkiller made a conversion which was pretty well done (the bugs from whoever made the first one are fixed)
Not sure where you want us to post this, but here's our member list.
Current YAK members:[spoiler]
- Shazam
- Gdh92
- Vansting
- Gold Man
- UNIT 33
- SleepKiller
- Dbiz
- Phobos
- Joseph
- SirPimped
- Droideka
- Helios
- Elite
- Kishan
- Disciple
- The Pusher
- Daniel
- Wolf
- Kyram
- David
- Mike
- Kelle
- Altair
- Drugrep
[/spoiler]
Scorpion, thanks. I'm not letting any of the players from eliminated clans join 1.0/212/YAK. For cases of people who have been flip-flopping tags, but werent ever in enten or uef either, they are forced to choose one.
I have to go right now, and will make edits tomorrow.
Quote from: Oven on September 04, 2013, 04:52:28 PM
Scorpion, thanks. I'm not letting any of the players from eliminated clans join 1.0/212/YAK. For cases of people who have been flip-flopping tags, but werent ever in enten or uef either, they are forced to choose one.
I have to go right now, and will make edits tomorrow.
But neither En'Ten nor U.E.F. were eliminated. wat do?
Quote from: Shazam on September 04, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
Oven I highly suggest that we find more in-game admins. It would be awesome if I could play for YAK every once in a while.
I'll try my best to pick up as much slack as possible, though.
Thanks, Oven, for taking care of this tournament.
These may be the last big battles ever for SWBF. Many people would like to be part of them just to play against so many others again. Enjoy them. :cheers:
Week 5 will take place next week, right?
Also, is there any way we could disable recons for the remainder of the tournament?
Yes! No wars this week!!! Can finally go out without stress
Quote from: BlackScorpion on September 04, 2013, 04:54:43 PM
But neither En'Ten nor U.E.F. were eliminated. wat do?
We stay in the ICW Clan we are in, 1.0 :punk:
Im a member (leader)?
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 04, 2013, 05:55:15 PM
Im a member (leader)?
I think Anyder joined as a member of 1.0, not sure if it was before or after UEF dropped out, but it will be Oven's decision if he has to wear merc tags or not.
Anyder was a member of PRO which is a clan in the version 1.0 that has joined us. That clears up for his brother too. I know its confusing but he was a member the entire time of 1.0.
Quote from: Gen.Hond{snp} on September 04, 2013, 06:32:46 PM
Anyder was a member of PRO which is a clan in the version 1.0 that has joined us. That clears up for his brother too. I know its confusing but he was a member the entire time of 1.0.
So why was he in UEF?
He can't be in 2 ICW team
Quote from: Phobos on September 04, 2013, 04:34:53 PM
If this game actually was dead this tournament would not be happening right now would it?
Precisely why I put "dead" in quotes. Because of all the goober-brained people that gave up a year before the apocalypse happened. And we're still here, enjoying and reaping the benefits of addiction to an awesome game, being away from all them that doubted.
Quote from: [FC]Elite on September 04, 2013, 06:40:30 PM
So why was he in UEF?
He can't be in 2 ICW team
He was apparently in both 1.0 and UEF when the ICW3 started. How many rounds did Anyder actually play as UEF member or was he merc?
Quote from: Phobos on September 04, 2013, 07:18:17 PM
He was apparently in both 1.0 and UEF when the ICW3 started. How many rounds did Anyder actually play as UEF member or was he merc?
2 weeks, he played in UEF. Then they drop out.
Sha-Zam, your not going to add the FA guys to the list?
Quote from: Shazam on September 04, 2013, 05:11:03 PM
Also, is there any way we could disable recons for the remainder of the tournament?
2/3rds of the clans left want recons...1 clan left wants minimap hack....if you are gunna remove recons then remove the minimap hack too
-By WUSILeader.Birdosrus *Seconded by 99 % of SWBF Community*
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 05, 2013, 02:35:13 AM
2/3rds of the clans left want recons...1 clan left wants minimap hack....if you are gunna remove recons then remove the minimap hack too
-By WUSILeader.Birdosrus *Seconded by 99 % of SWBF Community*
You don't know that everyone else will want recons, Anyder. Let the clans speak for themselves, please.
Oh, and by the way, there's a forum rule about radar discussion.
In case you forgot, here's a link: http://www.swbfgamers.com/index.php?topic=6142.0
We've already solved the radar problem. Please don't bring it up again.
Quote from: -=(212) Nixo=- on September 04, 2013, 11:51:09 PM
Sha-Zam, your not going to add the FA guys to the list?
They will be added ASAP.
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 05, 2013, 02:35:13 AM
2/3rds of the clans left want recons...1 clan left wants minimap hack....if you are gunna remove recons then remove the minimap hack too
-By WUSILeader.Birdosrus *Seconded by 9 % of SWBF Community*
you can't remove something that doesn't exist to begin with.
Quote from: Shazam on September 05, 2013, 03:44:01 AM
You don't know that everyone else will want recons, Anyder. Let the clans speak for themselves, please.
Oh, and by the way, there's a forum rule about radar discussion.
In case you forgot, here's a link: http://www.swbfgamers.com/index.php?topic=6142.0
We've already solved the radar problem. Please don't bring it up again.
He could arguably say that there is also a rule against junior moderating Sha-Zam ;) Either way it isn't really discussion so much as referencing to.
He does actually have a point however, although he shouldn't be so boldly claiming an absolute majority. Take it to a vote by each of the remaining clans representatives.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 03:51:32 AM
you can't remove something that doesn't exist to begin with.
Perhaps educating him on his bad grammar would be a better course of action than this respite?
For instance, you can hack into a computer. But you can not hack a computer. Hack actually means to cut. Where as hack into means to: "to break into (a server, Web site, etc.) from a remote location to steal or damage data:".
So the word hack can not be used in that context, it is grammatically incorrect. I do believe for the wording Birdosrus should be using to convey his views on the subject are
"If your most esteemed self is allowed to modify their sides as so to gain visibility to the entire mini-map and thus cheat. Then should we not be allowed to keep using recon droids good sirs? "
The above section is not meant to offend anyone, it is meant as a simple joke.
Quote from: SleepKiller on September 05, 2013, 04:13:23 AM
He could arguably say that there is also a rule against junior moderating Sha-Zam ;) Either way it isn't really discussion so much as referencing to.
He does actually have a point however.
Win XD
Quote from: Shazam on September 05, 2013, 03:44:01 AM
You don't know that everyone else will want recons, Anyder.
Read again
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 05, 2013, 02:35:13 AM
-By WUSILeader.Birdosrus *Seconded by 99 % of SWBF Community*
I agree with Birdo, if you remove recons, you should also remove the minimap hack.
Please mart, dont say radar is a hack ;) ::)
I'm happy with the decisions Oven has made, I wouldn't want to make them. :)
Hoth caves sounds like a good replacement, saves complicating things with more downloads.
I don't see any reason not to mod out special units except that jets are useful for admins but I wouldn't want to see any more mods that aren't server side.
I didn't mind the recon battle, it's a part of the game, much like having a tank battle. It could get repetitive if Russia is repeatedly attacked though.
Quote from: {PLA}gdh92 on September 05, 2013, 08:43:52 AM
I'm happy with the decisions Oven has made, I wouldn't want to make them. :)
Hoth caves sounds like a good replacement, saves complicating things with more downloads.
I don't see any reason not to mod out special units except that jets are useful for admins but I wouldn't want to see any more mods that aren't server side.
I didn't mind the recon battle, it's a part of the game, much like having a tank battle. It could get repetitive if Russia is repeatedly attacked though.
Yeah it could. But there are some tactics against recon's that work really effectively especially since radar is modded out on that map.
If recons are still allowed it will be interesting to see which team comes up with the best tactic to beat them - One command post is all it would take to swing the Russia battle. :)
I suggest as replacement of Eddie's Kastel: Kashyyyk: Docks
Quote from: Ten Numb on September 05, 2013, 05:55:57 AM
I agree with Birdo, if you remove recons, you should also remove the minimap hack.
He can't remove it since there isn't one.
Quote from: SleepKiller on September 05, 2013, 04:13:23 AM
Perhaps educating him on his bad grammar would be a better course of action than this respite?
For instance, you can hack into a computer. But you can not hack a computer. Hack actually means to cut. Where as hack into means to: "to break into (a server, Web site, etc.) from a remote location to steal or damage data:".
So the word hack can not be used in that context, it is grammatically incorrect.
Already explained it, they are too dense to accept the fact that mods ≠ hacks. Also according to the previous polls here 50% ≠ 99%.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 11:31:50 AM
Also according to the previous polls here 50% ≠ 99%.
You forget the orginal poll where it was what was it? 23 to 12? and more people were going to vote before helios got mad and declared minimap hack being in it regardless of what over half the population says and our estimate of 99% may be off by like a point or two it seems fairly accurate....everyone isnt perfect..unless your JC[spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler]...so unless we can get a hold of him to make official percents ours seems to be the best bet
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 12:26:28 PM
You forget the orginal poll where it was what was it? 23 to 12? and more people were going to vote before helios got mad and declared minimap hack being in it regardless of what over half the population says and our estimate of 99% may be off by like a point or two it seems fairly accurate....everyone isnt perfect..unless your JC[spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler]...so unless we can get a hold of him to make official percents ours seems to be the best bet
The original poll was 50% with 23 no votes, 16 yes votes, 7 indifferent, and helios never lied like you about radar being a hack instead of a mod lol. Your percentage estimate is off by about 49%
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 12:30:22 PM
The original poll was 50% with 23 no votes, 16 yes votes, 7 indifferent, and helios never lied about radar being a hack instead of a mod lol. Your percentage estimate is off by about 49%
i mean i only saw it was at 12 and i only know around 10 more people were going to vote no on it but if you really think it was 16 haha...also i dont remeber saying helios was a liar...and like i said im not[spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler] so it might be off the esitmate but not by much :)
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 12:36:03 PM
i mean i only saw it was at 12 and i only know around 10 more people were going to vote no on it but if you really think it was 16 haha...also i dont remeber saying helios was a liar...and like i said im not[spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler] so it might be off the esitmate but not by much :)
an estimate that is wrong since only ~50% of players here are against radar mod. helios has acknowledged that hacks are not mods because he understands the difference.
it was 16 haha i have teh screenshot saved from before
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 12:37:21 PM
an estimate that is wrong since only ~50% of players here are against radar mod. helios has acknowledged that hacks are not mods because he understands the difference.
it was 16 haha i have teh screenshot saved from before
well that was before the other people could vote because helios closed the polls. and what you think is a mod and what the rest of the general population considers a hack is a subject of a matter of opinion...and also thats...kinda weird to just have a screenshot of a poll off hand haha....assuming it actually exists that is
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 12:41:01 PM
well that was before the other people could vote because helios closed the polls. and what you think is a mod and what the rest of the general population considers a hack is a subject of a matter of opinion...and also thats...kinda weird to just have a screenshot of a poll off hand haha....assuming it actually exists that is
not really the differences are clearly defined on this site and many others, its kind of wierd to pretend that mods are hacks when they are nothing alike. the picture was saved cuz i knew something like this would happen, the antiradar trolls are too predictable lol.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 12:42:37 PM
not really the differences are clearly defined on this site and many others, its kind of wierd to pretend that mods are hacks when they are nothing alike. the picture was saved cuz i knew something like this would happen, the antiradar trolls are too predictable lol.
if you are referring to your posts on this site then i guess it must be true...and what you put on fcre....oh wait...nevermind...and ya truthfully i wasnt on the site 25/7 waiting for the orginal poll to be shutdown but ya i do recall it being 12...so thats why i feel that number was correct unless you can show me otherwise i gotta go off what i saw again...for the third time im not[spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler]
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 12:45:26 PM
if you are referring to your posts on this site then i guess it must be true...and what you put on fcre....oh wait...nevermind...and ya truthfully i wasnt on the site 25/7 waiting for the orginal poll to be shutdown but ya i do recall it being 12...so thats why i feel that number was correct unless you can show me otherwise i gotta go off what i saw again...for the third time im not[spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler]
it was 23no 16yes 7indifferent like i said, the other vote you think exist is imaginary. and if there were still only 12 yes votes, you would need over 110 no votes to actually have 99% opposition to radar. your word against actual screenshot lol.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 12:47:12 PM
it was 23no 16yes 7indifferent like i said, the other vote you think exist is imaginary. and if there were still only 12 yes votes, you would need over 1100 no votes to actually have 99% opposition to radar. Learn basic math before you go spewing more fallacies.
well id like...again ill ask...to see proof of that since...again...im going off of what i saw since i wasnt always on this forums watching the poll number every few seconds or whatever...the thing about the math is that the formula you follow and the one most people follow is wrong...if you were part of the order youd know that
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 12:50:48 PM
well id like...again ill ask...to see proof of that since...again...im going off of what i saw since i wasnt always on this forums watching the poll number every few seconds or whatever...the thing about the math is that the formula you follow and the one most people follow is wrong...if you were part of the order youd know that
so you think that even around 30 votes against radar and 12 votes for it is somehow 99% anti-radar? thats hilarios, and i only took a screenshot from right before the poll was closed, not every 3 seconds.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 12:53:28 PM
so you think that even around 30 votes against radar and 12 votes for it is somehow 99% anti-radar? thats hilarios, and i took a screenshot from right before the poll was closed.
if you subtract the number of letters in the word minimap hack multiple the division of the community it has brought add the additional support from the other people pre minimap hack such as sunjian(may he rest in peace) then cross check the decimals and halves by the order yes. id say that would be + or - around 1% from our 99% estimate. and AGAIN i will say for the....3rd of 4th time...i have yet to see proof it was ever at 16 since last i saw it was at 12 again for idk how many times i am not [spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler]
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 12:56:47 PM
if you subtract the number of letters in the word minimap hack multiple the division of the community it has brought add the additional support from the other people pre minimap hack such as sunjian(may he rest in peace) then cross check the decimals and halves by the order yes. id say that would be + or - around 1% from our 99% estimate. and AGAIN i will say for the....3rd of 4th time...i have yet to see proof it was ever at 16 since last i saw it was at 12 again for idk how many times i am not [spoiler]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jesus-christ.jpg[/spoiler]
that's the most idiotic math formula i've ever seen, nobody is against a minimap hack since it does not exist, and about 50% of people who voted are against the radar mod. Sunjian joined INVIS so he agreed to be pro-radar despite whatever he may have told you. Anyone who joins INVIS accepts radar as a fair part of the game. you blame radar for what gamespy did lol again thats sad. pro-radar players brought tunngle to swbfgamers so only those who started opposing radar created another division. again, prove how 30 votes is 99% of 42 votes? once you can prove how 12 out of 42 votes only amounts to 1% of actual votes, then ill post the screenshot for you.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 12:58:36 PM
that's the most idiotic math formula i've ever seen, nobody is against a minimap hack since it does not exist, and about 50% of people who voted are against the radar mod. Sunjian joined INVIS so he agreed to be pro-radar despite whatever he may have told you. Anyone who joins INVIS accepts radar as a fair part of the game.
you might not like it but its a solid math formula. and again...for the second time its a matter of opinion what you think it is. minimap hack is something sunjian spoke out about to me and several others before he died even referring it to as "the minimap hack". also i notice you keep going back and editing your posts about the fabled screenshot...well where is it? ive asked this being the 4th or 5th time by now
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 01:01:52 PM
you might not like it but its a solid math formula. and again...for the second time its a matter of opinion what you think it is. minimap hack is something sunjian spoke out about to me and several others before he died even referring it to as "the minimap hack". also i notice you keep going back and editing your posts about the fabled screenshot...well where is it? ive asked this being the 4th or 5th time by now
its not a real math formula, its a troll post. any kind of maphack sunjian may have mentioned to you is imaginary, he may have been given radar mods but i don't remember. he was pro-radar mod when he joined invis, and may have lied to you or you might be lying about him. again, prove how 30 votes is 99% of 42 votes? once you can prove how 12 out of 42 votes only amounts to 1% of actual votes, then ill post the screenshot for you.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 01:03:18 PM
its not a real math formula, its a troll post. any kind of maphack sunjian may have mentioned to you is imaginary, he may have been given radar mods but i don't remember. he was pro-radar mod when he joined invis, and may have lied to you or you might be lying about him. again, prove how 30 votes is 99% of 42 votes? once you can prove how 12 out of 42 votes only amounts to 1% of actual votes, then ill post the screenshot for you.
2^2 - 2^2 = (2+2)(2-2)
2(2-2) = (2+2)(2-2) .....(1)
Then 2 = 2+2 =4 .....(2)
1 =2
1+1+2 = 2+1+2
2+2 = 5
real math....and i still talk to sunjians brother on occasion who believe it or not also played so im sure i could just ask him if he has minimaphack on or not
Wow.
Some people are just pathetic. Lol.
So where is the pic ? just saying cause after writting and writting u aint still posting it
Quote from: -RepublicCommando- on September 05, 2013, 01:08:30 PM
Wow.
Some people are just pathetic. Lol.
Huh ?
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 01:06:48 PM
2^2 - 2^2 = (2+2)(2-2)
2(2-2) = (2+2)(2-2) .....(1)
Then 2 = 2+2 =4 .....(2)
1 =2
1+1+2 = 2+1+2
2+2 = 5
real math....and i still talk to sunjians brother on occasion who believe it or not also played so im sure i could just ask him if he has minimaphack on or not
thats not proof, proof equals percentages based on each person getting one vote for their opinion on the matter. ask any admin or mod here, and i gurantee they will agree that birdo's strange formula is completely inaccurate compared to forum vote percentages, even the ones who don't like radar will agree.
sunjian would not have such a thing, if he had radarmod it would be side LVLs. these files and any modifications to them are not considered hacks, as any basic modder knows. again you should stop mislabeling mods as hacks on a modding forum.
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 05, 2013, 01:09:01 PM
So where is the pic ? just saying cause after writting and writting u aint still posting it
Huh ?
If you read my posts, I asked birdo to prove that 12 out of 42 votes is somehow only 1% of total votes. Until he can do that using
real math formulas, I'm only showing pic to admins/mods if they want to see it.
Phobos, does it even matter? We can all read. So what if he can't?
- Just means he won't live too long when the zombies do attack.. Buwhahaha
Quote from: -RepublicCommando- on September 05, 2013, 01:11:04 PM
Phobos, does it even matter? We can all read. So what if he can't?
- Just means he won't live too long when the zombies do attack.. Buwhahaha
I can read, read the stupid insulting comments u post.
@Phobos, ure saying u have a pic, so just prove it. lol
Quote from: Kniescheibenzerschredderer on September 05, 2013, 01:12:43 PM
I can read, read the stupid insulting comments u post.
@Phobos, ure saying u have a pic, so just prove it. lol
Every post you make is stupid and insulting. @anyder, read where I asked birdo to prove his lies.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 01:09:09 PM
thats not proof, proof equals percentages based on each person getting one vote for their opinion on the matter. ask any admin or mod here, and i gurantee they will agree that birdo's strange formula is completely inaccurate compared to forum vote percentages, even the ones who don't like radar will agree.
sunjian would not have such a thing, if he had radarmod it would be side LVLs. these files and any modifications to them are not considered hacks, as any basic modder knows. again you should stop mislabeling mods as hacks on a modding forum.
ya well wheres your proof then? you clearly wont accept general mathematical formulas so how about instead of me going thorugh more funny math you just show us the screenshot? and again i dont know what amount of times this is at this point....its a matter of opinion on what it is or isnt for the general population its minimap hack...for the people who used to play before it it would probably be called minimap hack but for the select few you people call it radar....im not bashing your opinion hissil im simply writing what most people believe it is and the name really should be.
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 01:13:29 PM
ya well wheres your proof then? you clearly wont accept general mathematical formulas so how about instead of me going thorugh more funny math you just show us the screenshot? and again i dont know what amount of times this is at this point....its a matter of opinion on what it is or isnt for the general population its minimap hack...for the people who used to play before it it would probably be called minimap hack but for the select few you people call it radar....im not bashing your opinion hissil im simply writing what most people believe it is and the name really should be.
as i already explained your math is inaccurate, real votes matter not your pretend formulas. again, you can't prove anything you said so theres no point showing a screenshot to someone as delusional as yourself. minimap mod is not a hack, for anyone who knows basic modding knows that LVL files are not hacks, only a few trolls still call radar a hack even though its a mod, keep believing lies if you want but quit spreading them here.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 01:14:50 PM
as i already explained your math is inaccurate, real votes matter not your pretend formulas. again, you can't prove anything you said so theres no point showing a screenshot to someone as delusional as yourself. minimap mod is not a hack, for anyone who knows basic modding knows that LVL files are not hacks, only a few trolls still call radar a hack even though its a mod, keep believing lies if you want but quit spreading them here.
its wrong to YOU. you know what that is? an OPINION. im not saying you are a troll or stupid or insulting....infact all im doing is proving my point using other funny math formulas that work out just fine. and ive asked you how MANY times to prove me wrong with a screenshot? all these posts would have been nonexistent had you just shown it like 12 posts ago....also let the people believe what they want hissil this isnt fc people can have thier own opinions
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 01:17:59 PM
its wrong to YOU. you know what that is? an OPINION. im not saying you are a troll or stupid or insulting....infact all im doing is proving my point using other funny math formulas that work out just fine. and ive asked you how MANY times to prove me wrong with a screenshot? all these posts would have been nonexistent had you just shown it like 12 posts ago....also let the people believe what they want hissil this isnt fc people can have thier own opinions
any admin or mod who wants to see the screenshot just ask. only 50% of voters here are against radar mods, not 99%. and so therefore your formulas are wrong on this forum, and that is not my opinion it is a fact. you have not proved that 99% of the playerbase is against radar mod, so until you either take back this false claim or prove it in a way that admins agree with you, i have no need to show the screenshot to you birdosrus. all you do is insult and lie about mods here so that's why i asked for proof.
Quote from: Phobos on September 05, 2013, 01:19:31 PM
until you either take back this false claim or prove it in a way that admins agree with you, i have no need to show the screenshot to you. all you do is insult and lie about mods here so that's why i asked for proof.
im fairly certain you have no screenshots since you wont show anyone it. i gave you my formula and it works just fine. and it is an opinion because you believe it and it isnt 100% accurate since its off by 1% give or take. which makes it my opinion if i said it was 100% or 98%. henceforth your
WRONG ...if you could be wrong on an opinion that is xD. also uhh what are you going to do hissil if i dont take back my theoretical claim?
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
im fairly certain you have no screenshots since you wont show anyone it. i gave you my formula and it works just fine. and it is an opinion because you believe it and it isnt 100% accurate since its off by 1% give or take. which makes it my opinion if i said it was 100% or 98%. henceforth your WRONG ...if you could be wrong on an opinion that is xD. also uhh what are you going to do hissil if i dont take back my theoretical claim?
Like I said there is a screenshot I've already uploaded it, and will give the link to any admin/mod who requests it. Until you prove how 12 out of 42 only equals 1%, I'm not showing you the pic. Your false formulas are just lies that no admin or mod here is going to agree with. I already told you what I will do, not show you the pic. And hopefully a mod sees all these lies you are spreading soon. You are wrong to think 50% of voters is equal to 99%.
Quote from: hellish hellbird on September 05, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
im fairly certain you have no screenshots since you wont show anyone it. i gave you my formula and it works just fine. and it is an opinion because you believe it and it isnt 100% accurate since its off by 1% give or take. which makes it my opinion if i said it was 100% or 98%. henceforth your WRONG ...if you could be wrong on an opinion that is xD. also uhh what are you going to do hissil if i dont take back my theoretical claim?
Take this crap elsewhere. More and you will no longer be welcomed here.
Bidro: Troll posts will get you banned here. You worry about yourself and not any other members of SWBFgamers.com
Phobos: keep in mind the agreement we reach for the forum members to not call out particular players or clans. Justified or not, some have taken offense to some parts of your posts. And yes, I have clicked on the link in Birdo's signature.
Hey guys,
1. Week 5 thread will go up tomorrow.
2. I will respond to messages as needed tomorrow, make the edits that have been pointed out as necessary tomorrow, and so on. I'll also be on xfire then, and possibly tonight as well.
3. The radar issue was settled a long time ago. I'm pretty sure the decision was the only one that would have allowed the tournament to go forward. I know this from experience with ICW1-2. Moreover, everyone currently in the tournament agreed to the rule. So why even bring it up? As you probably know, I have no opinion on the radar issue, but I will tell you this: the amount of energy that is devoted to bickering about it astounds and upsets me.
4. Like Led said, the ICW3 is one of the last chances we all have to fill servers to the brim with competitive gameplay.
If you love playing SWBF, then this opportunity should excite you, at least a little. And if it excites you, why sabotage it? Why try to spoil a good thing? These tournaments don't happen by magic. They require not only work on the part of the admins, but cooperation on the part of the participants.
5. Scorpion, "eliminated" has a more general meaning in the posts you quote.
6. Shazam, Scorpion, Deagle -- do any of you have suggestions for adding admin help? There's good news: I will finally have regular internet access by Wed. this week, so I should be able to make at least a few battles, depending on my schedule of course. Regardless, more admins would always help.
Jamman, I didn't forget about your offer to help. If you still can, I'd greatly appreciate it.