Author Topic: ICW4 Week 2  (Read 3187 times)

Ltin

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2014, 05:54:54 PM »
I don't dispute the outcome of the battle, but I feel that admits shouldn't be participating in a battle they also Admin.

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2014, 05:56:27 PM »
With or without Joseph we would have won lol...

Also we didn't win cause of him, we won thanks to our skill...

EDIT: In fact, look at his KDR lol, don't complain
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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2014, 06:02:12 PM »
With or without Joseph we would have won lol...

Also we didn't win cause of him, we won thanks to our skill...

EDIT: In fact, look at his KDR lol, don't complain
He said he didn't dispute the outcome, he just felt Joseph should've been more of a stationary admin than an active one. At no point didn't he complain about the win. I thought it was a good game anyways.

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Ltin

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2014, 06:02:24 PM »
With or without Joseph we would have won lol...

Also we didn't win cause of him, we won thanks to our skill...

EDIT: In fact, look at his KDR lol, don't complain
Look, I don't want to start a rage war, and I didn't want to get an conversations like this going.
I am not complaining. Yet. But Admins should be partial.  If they are playing for a certain side, they are not. Whether or not you would have won isn't the point, the point is, by participating in a match, the mediator (admin) can't be considered partial, and the match is therefor unfair.

He said he didn't dispute the outcome, he just felt Joseph should've been more of a stationary admin than an active one. At no point didn't he complain about the win. I thought it was a good game anyways.
Infact
I don't dispute the outcome of the battle, but I feel that admins shouldn't be participating in a battle they also Admin.

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2014, 06:05:35 PM »
Joseph/Oven asked for my consent before both of the battles, and I told him I did not mind if he played with FC/UEF.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have an admin that does not play at each match, though.  Perhaps in the future we could do that.

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2014, 06:06:57 PM »
by participating in a match, the mediator (admin) can't be considered partial, and the match is therefor unfair.
If admins shouldn't play, this is surely not the reason.

The better argument would be that when I'm not in freecam, I can't see potential violations. But really, once the battle starts, the admin's job is essentially over. Violations of the sort you could only see in freecam are extremely rare. I think they happened maybe twice in the whole ICW3. 

I can still boot/ban players who join late, etc.

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2014, 06:16:44 PM »
This should not even be a complaint.  He asked YAK if it was ok and they agreed to it.  Actually, I did not hear any complaints until losing on Streets.

I felt that it was fair.  In every battle that he was participating in, I was in as well.  Therefore, there was an Admin on both sides of the battle.
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Ltin

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2014, 06:22:03 PM »
If admins shouldn't play, this is surely not the reason.
But it is a reason. You can try all you want to be partial, that doesn't mean the result won't be biased. If you participate, you hope your side wins. People always like it when their side wins.
The freecam issue in the icw 3 happened. There is a chance it could happen again.
Quote
Amendment 2 (Filming)

The admin of a match must film the match via freecam.

Corollary: An admin may not play in a match.
Why isn't this a rule now? Wouldn't we want to avoid another incident like the icw3? Now don't get we wrong, I wasn't there, but wouldn't we want to avoid abuse of power?

There won't always be an Admin on both sides of the battle, perhaps in this case it was fine, but I just think it's a bit unfair.
I'm said what I think should be said, and I'm done.  I don't want to be here when this turns into the rage fests it's probably going to become -_-.  So I'm no longer going to comment on this now I think, so leave me out of it.

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2014, 06:36:20 PM »
But it is a reason. You can try all you want to be partial, that doesn't mean the result won't be biased. If you participate, you hope your side wins. People always like it when their side wins.

If you actually took this seriously you'd also be criticizing every other admin for being members of BOB or YAK. But you aren't (and shouldn't be, because they are all trustworthy).

If you don't trust me to not be corrupt while playing, how could you possibly trust me to not be  corrupt when making large scale administrative decisions? Again, it's hard to take your position seriously in light of these contradictions.

Quote
The freecam issue in the icw 3 happened. There is a chance it could happen again. Why isn't this a rule now? Wouldn't we want to avoid another incident like the icw3? Now don't get we wrong, I wasn't there, but wouldn't we want to avoid abuse of power?

This tournament is not even remotely like the ICW3. We aren't robots. We can adapt to new situations. The new situation is that everyone seems to get along, and no one cheats. If that changes, the administration will change.

Quote
There won't always be an Admin on both sides of the battle, perhaps in this case it was fine, but I just think it's a bit unfair.
I'm said what I think should be said, and I'm done.  I don't want to be here when this turns into the rage fests it's probably going to become -_-.  So I'm no longer going to comment on this now I think, so leave me out of it.
Don't worry, I want to hear your opinion and am glad you raised the issue. This won't turn into a rage fest!

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2014, 06:45:51 PM »
Ltin, Norwood and I are also admins, or atleast we are helping Oven/Joseph, and we played for YAK in this Jabba battle. I understand that you expected an admin to not play for any side, but we were also outnumbering FC/UEF by 3 members, this is why they needed another merc.

Maybe they didn't have enough players and thus asked Oven for his participation since he had previously played for FC.
Maybe this was an extreme situation ( indeed the person supposed to monitor the match happened to play ) but if it didn't happen, we would have had to boot one of YAK player for the sides to remain fair.

 I could also merc for a clan that wants/needs me, and I don't think it would cause any more trouble.
Perhaps a lack of communication is to blame ( eventhough Oven clearly asked us, and we agreed/allowed him )? Would you want to get more informations ( what kind ) when something like this has to happen?

Edit : excuse my messy sentences its pretty late over there in Europe.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 06:51:37 PM by Syyy »
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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2014, 07:37:35 PM »
H'mm I feel since this relates to me as well that I should comment on this. This is my opinion, it is and always should be fine for someone who is an admin to play for a team, as long as there is a admin present who is not playing. There should always be someone present to watch over the game, answer players questions, and be ready for anything that might occur. Just my thoughts.
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Ltin

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2014, 07:40:38 PM »
I'll say one more thing,
I realize all the admins are in participating clans. I don't care. But when they play it takes their attention away from other matters that might be more important. Such as observing their own clan for bananas things. On a probably unrelated note, what was with babyeater's  website hack name thing?

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2014, 04:37:15 AM »
Just to let people know I went over the max video length when I recorded Jabba (probably because I have it on high settings, I think it worked before with longer). If anyone does want to see me die repeatedly just ask and I'll make a Youtube account to upload to. :)

About Joseph mercing - YAK agreed, including myself, so no objections.
Maybe it's best if there is an admin who isn't playing in future but I don't mind the last matches; at Jabba if Joseph hadn't played we would have to lose a player anyway and as long as Joseph plays for any team who asks so there's no accusations of Bias he deservers to play as much as anyone else.
I play less now but I'll always be around, lets keep this site and battlefront going. :)

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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2014, 11:36:11 AM »
May I add, Phobos, something about your post you edited 10 hours later : the part you are quoting is entirely fictionnal and was written as an example for Ltin's newspaper project. I think the concerns Ltin expressed are now sorted out. There's no need to beat a dead horse.
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Re: ICW4 Week 2
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2014, 02:25:34 PM »
How do clans feel about increasing the attacks per week from 2 to 3? (It depends on other things besides clan approval.)