Tick Rate vs Frame Rate

[Led]

Hi MPCers,

If you have ever hosted a SWBF game, you are aware that you can set the TPS (ticks per second) of the server.  For a DC based game hosted with the game cd/dvd you can set 15, 20, or 30 TPS.

1.2 version PC dedicated server software allows the admind to set other TPS values with the server command /tps 30 for 30 TPS, for example.

The TPS setting sets the mininum frames per second (FPS) for users on the server.

My question is:  are TPS the same as FPS ?

The question arises because I have recently become aware that it is possible for players to un-cap their client side framerates, to what ever their video card can handle using an undocumented client command.

My impression is that TPS are used to define server syncing with the client.  FPS is used for the visual smoothness for the player.

The motivation for asking the question is to determine if players are gaining an advantage using an uncapped framerate.

What do you think?

Buckler

[Hardcore]

From what i understand- Ticks per second, simply means how fast the GAME itself is updating. This is also known as "logic per second" many times.

FPS is the graphics running, making it smoother for the vusial effect as you said.

Basically-  During each tick, the server processes incoming user commands, runs a physical simulation step, checks the game rules, and updates all object states. After simulating a tick, the server decides if any client needs a world update and takes a snapshot of the current world state if necessary. A higher tickrate increases the simulation precision, but also requires more CPU power and available bandwidth on both server and client.

This may sound a bit out of place but this is how MOST games are built that i know of and this is how i understand that it works this is of corse based on my understanding so if someone knows otherwise feel free to correct me because SWBF could be done differently.

So basically if they have powerful computers, and you have a powerful computer, it would in practice help to make the TPS faster, however i do not know if SWBF can handle faster itself, something that would need to be tested i'd guess.

[aeria.]

The question arises because I have recently become aware that it is possible for players to un-cap their client side framerates, to what ever their video card can handle using an undocumented client command.
for asking the question is to determine if players are gaining an advantage using an uncapped framerate.

Hmm.. may we know the command?

[Led]

Hmm.. may we know the command?

Well, I want to know what you think, first   

[aeria.]

As Hardcore put it, the game is updating at a slower rate than your FPS so I believe there is no true advantage. Playing at 30 FPS and playing at 60+ FPS isn't that big of a difference when it comes to responsiveness. However if you compare 20 FPS and 60+ FPS, there is a sure difference.

[Led]

Fair enough. 

The command is /noframelock

It gets inserted into the command line of the program, as described for the /nointro command
neat the bottom of this page:

http://www.tweakguides.com/SWB_7.html


I get 150-200 fps on my video card with it.

Buck

[aeria.]

I'll probably try it next time I'm playing Battlefront. But good find!

[Xfire Keenmike aka cull]

i dont know, at least if i have an advantage i am a person not to flaunt it. the probles with my video card have been happening long before i learned about the no framlock.

[Led]

i dont know, at least if i have an advantage i am a person not to flaunt it. the probles with my video card have been happening long before i learned about the no framlock.

Read in a more cynical way, your post could mean `If I have an unfair advantage, I don't want anyone else to know about it'.


But first, is it really an advantage if the tick rate remains the same?  That is the question that I am soliciting opinions.

Second, if it is an advantage, I feel that everyone should be aware of it!  And, if it is not, it certainly makes the game visual experience much more smooth--perhaps meaning the game will  continue to have interest to someone.

Also, from the perspective of someone that runs a server, why should I waste my bandwidth providing a 60 TPS server (that gives everyone a mininum of 60 FPS) when I can provide a 20 TPS server and let everyone be aware that they can get 100-200 FPS anyway?


Buck

[Xfire Keenmike aka cull]

text is easy to get misunderstood, so let me say honestly i am not being cynical. and i am not hiding a thing, if you ask i will tell. and if i can give i will give. back on the topic i ask how do i get 100-200 FPS while in the map and in game? the most i have ever seen is 60 FPS. and as you can see in my screeen shot i got 20 FPS while in my own server.

[MjrNuT]

Hi MPCers,

If you have ever hosted a SWBF game, you are aware that you can set the TPS (ticks per second) of the server.  For a DC based game hosted with the game cd/dvd you can set 15, 20, or 30 TPS.

1.2 version PC dedicated server software allows the admind to set other TPS values with the server command /tps 30 for 30 TPS, for example.

The TPS setting sets the mininum frames per second (FPS) for users on the server.

My question is:  are TPS the same as FPS ?

The question arises because I have recently become aware that it is possible for players to un-cap their client side framerates, to what ever their video card can handle using an undocumented client command.

My impression is that TPS are used to define server syncing with the client.  FPS is used for the visual smoothness for the player.

The motivation for asking the question is to determine if players are gaining an advantage using an uncapped framerate.

What do you think?

Buckler

Buckler!!

I just had to chime in here for you b/c it's something I've investigated a long time ago when undertaking TF2 servers.  You ask great questions and the principles are the same for SWBF.  The only thing is that SWBF lacks more controls then TF2 or other newer games, but these ones you are speaking of are the same principles across the games.

Here is a link that explains alot, some of what quite familiar from JK's post.  ;P

http://whisper.ausgamers.com/wiki/index.php/Tickrate


Answer to your first question: No

Answer to your second question: No


The /tps command is ticks per second.  On the tweak guides it says it sets the maximum frames per second, which is correct.  The reason for this is create a level playing field. 


That playing field is meant to weed out the high latency players (i.e., poor connections).  They send less data and receive less data.  The effect of this are players that skip around on your screen, or you die unexplicably, or other such similar situations. 

To you with the 30 fps, you didn't see anything but a blip or a glitch possibly.  To the opponent, they see you as somewhat smooth.  The server calculates the world at those times where that opponent sees you in their target and fires, hence you die, whereas it didn't seem anything like that on your end.


So by this, the advantage goes to the person with the highest ping!! 


This is not related to the command that you've mentioned, which is only client side.  All that is doing is allowing them to not be locked into the server, if set at /tps X.  Only effect is what you've said, higher frames possible which is only b/c the gfx card is allowed to receive and update more due to more available I/O from you, the client.  Another effect is smoother or more accurate game play -- to a certain extent b/c of what I described earlier.


Games that really benefit for higher tickrate are ones where the player models are the same for each side, thus the same hit zones.  So accuracy and precision mean alot more in those games (i.e., counter strike, cod, battlefield, etc.).  SWBF, I think are varying player models, more than just different skins...I think.  Been a long time for me, so the accuracy is out the door.


The other part about SWBF for the advantage where /tps is not set or even if it is set are those ppl that use a Lag switch.  They are acting like the player with a bad connection, but in this case know they are rather than unbeknowst to them.

If I were to recommend, keep the server at a set /tps and use the /noframelock.

Happy TG man!

[Soap Mactavish]

well i dont really know that actual difference but FTS and TPS have to be different becauserthey are spelled differently. I know it sounds like a stupid answer but that how i usually approach those questions

[Xfire Keenmike aka cull]

let me add that the majority of time i play swbf1 is with my little pc which has onboard graphics. the rig set up is in my xfire profile.

The question arises because I have recently become aware that it is possible for players to un-cap their client side framerates, to what ever their video card can handle using an undocumented client command.

question, is the answer /noframelock?

[Led]

Hi MJR,

Thanks for the good info!

I have been a bit bugged that I have not heard about the /noframelock command before now.
It is much easier on the eyes, although my player movement doesn't seem as "crisp" to me when I have 30 fps.

It seems to have been well known in the ESL communities.  (I suspect Skullz knows about  it too, but I haven't seen him lately to ask about it    My personal thought is that we should tell everyone.

keen mike:  I have a 50 TPS server set up so you can get 50 FPS minimum.  Go ahead and try it. If you want to make you own server 30 TPS/30 FPS minimum, you can set that option in the hosting settings when you set up a game with your disk.  *If  you have a decent video card* you can get 100-200 FPS when you use the /noframelock command.  Let me know if I can assist you to enable the command.

Buckler

[MjrNuT]

No problem my good sir.  Most likely you haven't heard it b/c quite frankly....there just aren't that many adults in the game. 

Admittedly, the game has a small following and of course remember its genre, when it came out. 

Considering the link I gave you, the /noframelock effectively allows you the client to provide more I/O ONLY on the client side.  So when you're at 100 FPS that you see, of course it will be "choppy" considering a 30 FPS lock.  Kind of a bad analogy but i KNOW you will understand this:

finite element model with 4 elements thru the thickness vs, 40.  How much fidelity in results are improved with the latter? 

FPS is NEVER the same as TPS.  A bad thing is when the FPS (server or client) goes BELOW the TPS.  Means the gfx card on the client can't handle the action and/or the internet connection is getting choke.  Also, server FPS is also NOT the same as Client FPS.