Refurbishing an Old PC

Started by Gold Man, May 09, 2014, 07:11:10 AM

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May 09, 2014, 07:11:10 AM Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 01:47:58 PM by Gold Man
Hey guys, I'm back at it again in the tech field!

So recently, as part of my IT course, I need to refurbish an old PC. I've done minor repairs to the stuff the schools has, but I'm tackling a big one right now. I'm taking my parent's 8-year old Media Center machine and am planning to upgrade it so I could use it as my person machine (hopefully to replace my piece-of-crap laptop!)

Anyways, this is the old junker I'm repairing:

[spoiler]

Name: Hp Pavilion Media Center a1477c Desktop PC
Processor: Athlon 64 X2 (T) 4400+ 2.2 GHz
Chipset: ATI Radeon Xpress 200
Motherboard: MSI MS-7184 AmethystM-GL6E
RAM: 1GB (2x 512MB DDR SDRAM)
Hard Drive: 250 GB SATA
Graphics Card: Integrated
Additional: TV Tuner with FM Tuner
[/spoiler]

As you can see, this thing was quite a powerhouse back in the day, but that day was long ago. I want to run Windows 7 on it, but it requires 4GB of RAM. I've luckily found where I can get 4 1GB sticks of old DDR SDRAM, however my main concern is the processor. Having looked up specs for Battlefield 4 recently, they require processors with around 2.4 GHz, whereas mine produces almost that. On top of this, the power supply (which has been replaced before) needs to have old connectors (otherwise I'm looking at buying a ton of adapters).

To summarize what I just said, I need help finding a good power supply that would have an old PCI connector (since everything these days uses the PCI-e conncector). All of today's power supply units have what I need for everything else, but I need to find one with an old PCI connector. On top of that, I also need to find a much more powerful processor, and one compatible with the old chipset that I mentioned above.

Could you guys help me out? Again? :confused:


May 09, 2014, 09:26:00 AM #1 Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 09:29:50 AM by Led
Something on this page is lighting up my anti-virus.  Something about memory-up.

I don's see that URL in GM's profile.  I will have to do some digging.

OK, it must have been your picture in the spoiler tag.  Something about a malformed URL.  I took it out for now, as it didn't seem to work anyway.
Quote from: Abraham Lincoln. on November 04, 1971, 12:34:40 PM
Don't believe everything you read on the internet

OK, so here is my take on computer it self:

graphics card needed, would probably require the PS upgrade.  (Although I think you are using the incorrect terminology on the PS.)

more memory = better, although windows 7 can run with very little
http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/windows-7-ram-requirements-how-much-memory-do-i-need/

wanting to play battlefield 4...umm, not so sure about that.

I'm not sure how much you want to spend, but I would really look at ebay for a system that comes with window 7 and maybe a better graphics card if you are wanting to play newer games.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xhp+h9&_nkw=hp+h9&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Quote from: Abraham Lincoln. on November 04, 1971, 12:34:40 PM
Don't believe everything you read on the internet

Well, I'm carrying a tightman's budget of $100. I know I could probably find the power supply for around $50, But then that leaves me with the other half for the processor and SDRAM, so I don't quite have a big enough budget.

At the least, if I can't run Battlefield 4 at first, I'd like for it to be able to run something like TFU II at decent speeds. Maybe once I get this sucker working again to finish up my IT course, I'l just start saving up to buy that H9 Phoenix model you're suggesting, Led. ;)

Quote from: Gold Man on May 09, 2014, 05:41:38 PM
Well, I'm carrying a tightman's budget of $100. I know I could probably find the power supply for around $50, But then that leaves me with the other half for the processor and SDRAM, so I don't quite have a big enough budget.
Do your research on power supply brands before you buy one. The last thing you want is a bad quality one frying your mother board.

There is no reason you can't play some recent games off a low end graphics card as well, but Battlefield 4 at a decent framerate is probably out of your reach. (That game is pretty intensive on hardware.) Other games like TF2 in DX8 mode you could probably hope for a pretty good framerate... Wait no I'm getting in TF2 stuff again my bad. (I really love that game.) But anyway Tirpider brought himself a GT 610 and played Dishonoured on it. I don't know if he's upgraded yet but I see him playing Rust a lot on Steam. So if he hasn't you certainly have some options available, even then Dishonoured ain't exactly an old game itself.

Also 4GB of ram shouldn't be your highest priority in my opinion if you're on a budget. 2GB will work just fine for most games until you can afford better. If you can afford 4GB without sacrificing anything else then of course you should get it. But you should focus on a GPU first.


Perhaps I should explain how far I've gone:

I've looked at power supply options in several places, but I'm actually trying to find one like the one it has now that is busted, which is a Cooler Master 500W Extreme Power Plus. I don't know if it's still considered a good one, but I know Cooler Master itself is a well-known and trusted brand. And the reason our PS was corrupted anyways was because we never did shut off the computer.

I have found it on eBay for around $51, however I suppose I could go spelunking in my IT teacher's office and hunt down if he has a power supply that would work for my machine.

Once I have that done, I'l need the 4GB of DDR SDRAM, since it is recommend Windows 7 runs on 4GB RAM, or so my IT teacher says. The cost for that is around $20-30 (planning to buy it off eBay), so in total I'l have either spent around $80 alone, or just $20-30 for the RAM if I get lucky with one of my teacher's PS units.

There is also the potential for GPU, but for now I just need the clunker to work. Once I get that working I'l probably still play old SWBF and whatnot, but at least I'l have a machine that runs it nicely. Only time will tell what I decide to do once it starts working.

May 10, 2014, 03:44:27 AM #7 Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 03:49:48 AM by aeria.
I used to do IT work regularly so I'll drop some knowledge.

Your PC is less than ideal in terms of upgrade options. However it's not absolutely obsolete.

100 dollar budget is REALLY small. But this is what you can do:

- Max it out to 4 GB of RAM. No brainer.
- Skip out on the video card. For your budget there's no room for an adequate graphics card. In addition, you will be bottlenecked by PCI Express 1.0 X16. The good news is the bottleneck isn't so much. The bad news is that there's still a bottleneck and money is better spent on the RAM+SSD combo.
- Go on ebay and get yourself any cheap SATA II Solid State Disk. SSDs are incredibly fast and REALLY help making old computers run better. Install Windows on the SSD and store your files on the HDD. Windows will run very fast and you can still have the storage options you wanted.

Coincidenially I've worked with the 500W Extreme Power Plus a few times. In fact, I have an extra one lying around in my room.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's an outdated PSU and they aren't easy to find in stock anymore. They're not terrible PSUs for basic builds but I wouldn't put one of these in a gaming PC. I also wouldn't recommend going out of your way to get this PSU. Any 80+ certified 300W PSU under a good brand should do well for your machine. If you want to run modern games, get yourself a minimum of a 430W. I can't stress enough how important it is not skimp out on the PSU. Don't get some random no name company off ebay. Those can kill your PC.

There is no such thing as a PSU with a "PCI" connector. Not that I'm aware of at the least. The PCI-E connectors are usually used to give extra power to graphics cards. Perhaps you are referring to the SATA or the 4-pin molex connectors. Any modern PSU should have those connectors standard.

I would not recommend turning it into a full out gaming machine, as it's too obsolete. Money is better spent making a new build if that is your intention. However for your IT course, you can turn this old build into a very fast internet and office machine.

-----------------------------------

Reasons why this shouldn't be converted into a gaming pc (assuming you're going over your $100 budget:
- Your CPU is 9 years old and will be a big bottleneck. Clock speeds are not the main resource for performance in CPUs anymore. The performance difference between my 4.0 GHz i7-3770k and my 2.3 GHz i7-4850HQ (this is my laptop) are not very far off, despite almost half the clock speed. Your CPU might get away with running some modern titles but your games will still have unstable framerates. I've worked with cheap AMD CPUs before and they haven't aged well for gaming.
- Outdated but not huge bottlenecks all around otherwise. Limited by SATA II speeds but that's not a deal breaker. The motherboard has PCI Express 1.0 X16 when most video cards run on PCI-E 2.0 or even 3.0. It's not a huge bottleneck compared to the CPU but it will still be there.
- If trying to play Battlefield 4, you might run into clearance issues with the video card in your case. Perhaps if you purchased a half-size video card it'll fit.

-----------------------------------
Sorry for the wall of text but that's my attempt to give a crash course. Here's a recap:

-4 GB RAM
-cheap SSD off ebay
-Any 300W PSU off newegg from a good brand.

I'm open to answer questions as I pretty much worked with crap PCs on a daily basis.


#TYBG

Thanks for the help, aeria!

I know off the bat I should max the RAM and not to bother with a GPU, as for now I just need the machine to work, more or less. The thing was a pretty good Media Center machine back in the day, so I'm still unsure what the wattage was for the original PSU. I think I'l just go spelunking in my teacher's office for a decent PSU, if I find one. If I don't, then I'l just look for one off eBay or newegg.

As for the hard drive, the SATA is an SSD, not an HDD. Even so, it's still a good hard drive, so chances are I'l keep using and won't bother with buying another hard drive.

My only other question is, what happens if I find a PSU that meets my requirements, but the size doesn't match? What then?

May 10, 2014, 08:58:58 PM #9 Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 09:09:57 PM by aeria.
Your PC shouldn't have an SSD unless someone bought one for the computer in the past. SSD + HDD is a fantastic combo. The boot time and system responsiveness improve dramatically and you still have a full hard drive to store your files.

All standard PSUs are the same form factor so I doubt you'll have issues of whether it'll fit or not. If you can't salvage a PSU, get one off Newegg.

This one is perfectly fine for your computer and the price isn't too high.

Here's an SSD that should serve its purpose. It's worth the steep price.


#TYBG

Quote from: aeria. on May 10, 2014, 08:58:58 PM
Your PC shouldn't have an SSD unless someone bought one for the computer in the past. SSD + HDD is a fantastic combo. The boot time and system responsiveness improve dramatically and you still have a full hard drive to store your files.

All standard PSUs are the same form factor so I doubt you'll have issues of whether it'll fit or not. If you can't salvage a PSU, get one off Newegg.

This one is perfectly fine for your computer and the price isn't too high.

Here's an SSD that should serve its purpose. It's worth the steep price.

Well, looking back at the hard drive again, it states Western Digital, so it obviously didn't come with the machine. I'd assume the IT guys transferred data from our old hard drive to the other hard drive the first time, and replaced the PSU the second time we went.

And that's good to know, so it means I should be able to find a good working one my my teacher's cave of an office. :P It should also save me $30!

I guess I'l only be spending that $30 for the SDRAM, which again shouldn't be hard to find off eBay. Thanks for the help, aeria!

Almost all pre-built PCs come with 3rd party products. Western Digital supplies A LOT of the hard drives to manufacturers. If the storage capacity of that hard drive is 250 GB, then it likely came with the computer.

Also WD does not make SSDs.

Have fun refurbishing the computer!


#TYBG

Well, after talking it over with an IT expert, it seems my PSU isn't the problem here at all. The thing can turn on my PC, but I can't get any further, because the OS is corrupted (I may have deleted some useful files on there in my haste to clear up space on the thing). I plan to wipe the hard drive and slap Windows 7 on there, but if it doesn't work I'l be looking for a new hard drive I guess. (Turns out I might be buying an SSD after all!)

I'm still hunting for SDRAM on eBay, and I've found some good offers, so I might take up one of their offers if I can. Figured I'd keep you guys in the loop on my PC. :D

May 12, 2014, 01:40:05 PM #13 Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 01:48:16 PM by aeria.
That's good news. Any parts you can salvage, the better.

EDIT: Here's the cheapest I found of 4x1GB DDR 400 MHz modules.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edge-1GB-40-4GB-4-x-1GB-PC-3200-400MHz-DDR-184-Pin-Desktop-Memory-RAM-/151297641998?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item233a0ace0e


#TYBG

May 15, 2014, 06:08:41 AM #14 Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 02:11:28 PM by Gold Man
Quote from: aeria. on May 12, 2014, 01:40:05 PM
That's good news. Any parts you can salvage, the better.

EDIT: Here's the cheapest I found of 4x1GB DDR 400 MHz modules.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edge-1GB-40-4GB-4-x-1GB-PC-3200-400MHz-DDR-184-Pin-Desktop-Memory-RAM-/151297641998?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item233a0ace0e

Well, I've been hunting for RAM the past few days, and all the offers range from $36-$50+. I've seen several offers with free shipping, but none of them confirm they can ship to Canada. That's one of the better offers I've seen, but it doesn't say it can ship to Canada, it just says it may/may not be able to ship to Canada.

EDIT: Ok, after hearing that I'd need to purchase a product key for Win 7, I've decided I'l just go with a reinstall of XP, so I won't need to hunt for RAM anymore.

Anyways, the reinstall works from what I see, all I need to do now is hunt for drivers. Once the drivers are in place, I should be good to go. Unless of course the XP reinstall doesn't work right, in which case I'l need to hunt down the Media Centre Edition install disc in my house to reinstall XP properly.

I know there's gotta be a place that lists drivers for XP, however, can anyone help me find the Ethernet driver for my HP Pavilion 1477c Media Centre machine?